Scenario of War with the League

Will the League resort to stooping so low as to consider assassinations as Haven once did for so long, bracketing how difficult it may be since cats assumed a more active role?

Are there any certain key assassinations that could seriously hamstring the efforts of the GA and impede its momentum, short of entire governments?

I don't think it would bode well for the GA if somehow, individuals in the League has access to the Mesan mind-control nanites?

kzt wrote:

Loren Pechtel wrote:
The problem is you are looking only at shipboard firepower. At the specified time Manticore has pods, the SLN does not. The SLN is going to behave according to doctrine--they're going to go for Manticore. They'll probably meet half of Manticore's fleet (a fight I think they would win) and a whole bunch of pods seeded in space. The SLN eats salvo after salvo from empty space. They might choose to shoot back at best they kill empty pods. By the time the fleets engage the SLN has been ravaged.

Pods are a well understood technology. Notice how everyone had them in ASVW? Notice how the SLN was able to mount them to attack Manticore? Everyone has them everywhere.

not in 1910. This is before In enemy hands. Manticore has pods the haven does not. The SL has never seen pods in use in the last few hundred years.

cthia wrote:Will the League resort to stooping so low as to consider assassinations as Haven once did for so long, bracketing how difficult it may be since cats assumed a more active role?

You are severely overestimating the efficacy of cats as an early warning system. While they will stop (or at least react to) any up-close-and-personal attacks, they are utterly useless against anything that happens at range, or doesn't involve human actors.

Are there any certain key assassinations that could seriously hamstring the efforts of the GA and impede its momentum, short of entire governments?

No. In terms of members of the military, noone is as key to the war effort against the SLN as, say, Caparelli or White Haven were against Haven. In political terms, even the most reclusive of Manticore's conservatives would be hard-pressed not to go to war over the threat to Manticore's trade (or Manticore itself, or Beowulf) that the SLN now represents.

I don't think it would bode well for the GA if somehow, individuals in the League has access to the Mesan mind-control nanites?

I don't think this is a risk the Alignment wishes to take. They're very careful to deploy the stuff only when they think it's absolutely necessary; handing it off to someone else (even in a "you pick the targets, we do the deed" kind of way), with all the risk of letting the tech fall into enemy hands, does not seem like a likely strategy.

kzt wrote:

munroburton wrote:ONI has treecats available. Wholesale counter-penetration on that scale that isn't going to happen!

Sure. They work so well that Mesa planted an agent as a government minister. As recent events have shown in the real world, anyone at that level has access to enormous piles of secrets only vaguely connected to the conduct of foreign policy.

One government minister is easy, especially if she's been in oppostion for decades. Besides, the treecats didn't know about the Alignment whilst Descroix was active.

I was responding to someone who'd postulated multiple ONI ops teams being formed with an Alphas, two Betas, three Gammas and two "normals" etc.

The Alignment was usually very carefull to arrange to use 3rd party pawns to do things like the attack on Torch. They were using a Mesa Naval Officer to coordinate but then that would be realistic given who owned Torch before it changed hands.
The Alignment was also using Mesa/Manpower as the front to push the problems in Talbott Quadrant though it tried to make it look like OFS or at least a "private commercial group" was going to support the rebels in order to ultimatly secure access and partnerships (and probably part ownership) of the planets involved.

Think about what is going to start happening as the League moves to engage the GA and does't really get any traction. Cause damage, certainly. Destroy some ships, sure. Make a sucessfull attack to take over a major player's home system or major Provence (system)- unlikely.
When the people who are running many of the systems of League Members and Independent Systems and Transtellars start to see what is happening with the war between the League and the GA, do you really think that they are going to activly jump on the attack of the GA with the League buraracy? Those that start to see the League fracturing- and they will start to see it- may take the view that they can quietly start to advance plans to enlarge their spheres of control. That is both economic and political control. The League is going to get seriously occupied with the GA. The individual members not quite so much. Look at the situation that is breaking on Beowulf......not the pending SL/SLN attack with Alignment possible participation...but the systems for which Beowulf has had relationships for years (probably centuries) of their neighbors and trading partners and find that some of them are manuvering to take advantage and probably do Beowulf serious harm now that they are going to move out of the protective net of conduct that the membership in the League brings with it- as long as you play by the rules.

Self interest and aquistion of power & wealth. Don't attack the GA, Don't mess with their shipping, and you can probably build a nice little (or not so little) Local League of your own. Just exactly what the RF will be doing a dozen of to start with.

Brigade XO wrote:The Alignment was usually very carefull to arrange to use 3rd party pawns to do things like the attack on Torch. They were using a Mesa Naval Officer to coordinate but then that would be realistic given who owned Torch before it changed hands.
The Alignment was also using Mesa/Manpower as the front to push the problems in Talbott Quadrant though it tried to make it look like OFS or at least a "private commercial group" was going to support the rebels in order to ultimatly secure access and partnerships (and probably part ownership) of the planets involved.

Think about what is going to start happening as the League moves to engage the GA and does't really get any traction. Cause damage, certainly. Destroy some ships, sure. Make a sucessfull attack to take over a major player's home system or major Provence (system)- unlikely.
When the people who are running many of the systems of League Members and Independent Systems and Transtellars start to see what is happening with the war between the League and the GA, do you really think that they are going to activly jump on the attack of the GA with the League buraracy? Those that start to see the League fracturing- and they will start to see it- may take the view that they can quietly start to advance plans to enlarge their spheres of control. That is both economic and political control. The League is going to get seriously occupied with the GA. The individual members not quite so much. Look at the situation that is breaking on Beowulf......not the pending SL/SLN attack with Alignment possible participation...but the systems for which Beowulf has had relationships for years (probably centuries) of their neighbors and trading partners and find that some of them are manuvering to take advantage and probably do Beowulf serious harm now that they are going to move out of the protective net of conduct that the membership in the League brings with it- as long as you play by the rules.

Self interest and aquistion of power & wealth. Don't attack the GA, Don't mess with their shipping, and you can probably build a nice little (or not so little) Local League of your own. Just exactly what the RF will be doing a dozen of to start with.

A number of books speak about beowulf's "daughter colonies". What do you bet that if beowulf succeeds from the SL, her daughter colonies follow?

RFC has said that few SL SDF's have ships bigger than destroyers, few SDF's have anything more than LAC's for system piracy patrol, and there are only about a dozen SL SDF's that have SD's.

There is beauwolf and the renascence alliance. Either some of the RA SDF's don't have SD's, or there is at most only one or two other SDF's that have SD's. (or both)

darrell wrote:
A number of books speak about beowulf's "daughter colonies". What do you bet that if beowulf succeeds from the SL, her daughter colonies follow?

RFC has said that few SL SDF's have ships bigger than destroyers, few SDF's have anything more than LAC's for system piracy patrol, and there are only about a dozen SL SDF's that have SD's.

There is beauwolf and the renascence alliance. Either some of the RA SDF's don't have SD's, or there is at most only one or two other SDF's that have SD's. (or both)

Myself and many others were expecting those daughter colonies to have something to say in the Chamber of Stars when Beowulf was being called out. Somehow they weren't even mentioned....

Theemile wrote:

darrell wrote:
A number of books speak about beowulf's "daughter colonies". What do you bet that if beowulf succeeds from the SL, her daughter colonies follow?

RFC has said that few SL SDF's have ships bigger than destroyers, few SDF's have anything more than LAC's for system piracy patrol, and there are only about a dozen SL SDF's that have SD's.

There is beauwolf and the renascence alliance. Either some of the RA SDF's don't have SD's, or there is at most only one or two other SDF's that have SD's. (or both)

Myself and many others were expecting those daughter colonies to have something to say in the Chamber of Stars when Beowulf was being called out. Somehow they weren't even mentioned....

I expect they were part of the 25%(?) that voted against the motion in the Chamber of Stars

Relax wrote:

kzt wrote:Pods are a well understood technology. Notice how everyone had them in ASVW? Notice how the SLN was able to mount them to attack Manticore? Everyone has them everywhere.

Common kzt. We all know perfectly well none of those pods the SLN used at BOMA II came from SLN stocks.

They had no issues with mounting and controlling them, which means their fire control computers were programmed with the concept of pods and there is a standardized SLN interface for pods. So yes, the SLN knows all about old-school pods and at the very least has designs for them on hand.

kzt wrote:

Relax wrote:Common kzt. We all know perfectly well none of those pods the SLN used at BOMA II came from SLN stocks.

They had no issues with mounting and controlling them, which means their fire control computers were programmed with the concept of pods and there is a standardized SLN interface for pods. So yes, the SLN knows all about old-school pods and at the very least has designs for them on hand.

Hrmm mabye because the engineers who built the pods weren't stupid and took preexisting SLN C&C hardware and integrated it into the pods... "Mounting"... It is called a tractor. There is no "mount". IF there was, yea, it is really hard to bolt something on a ship... Really advanced stuff, bolts...

Then again, the RMN/GSN can't figure out what a power cord is, so... Maybe Bolts are ultra advanced!