Congratulations! The war is over! Now what?

I've been reading this forum for about an hour now. The thread about War With the League is awesome. But somewhere between the posts about battle plans and naval buildup I got to wondering about what will happen when there is no more war to be fought.

The Star Kingdom/Empire has been fighting for its life almost nonstop for over twenty years. Unless there is some sort of Hiroshima/Nagasaki type event, the current war with the Sollies/Mesan Allignment will have to last at least two years and probably closer to five.

Being at war has become a way of life for Manticore. So I'm wondering will happen once the shooting stops and the peace treaties are signed? Can Manticore really go back to being just another Star Nation?

Manticore has an big trading fleet and it´s navy was created to protect them. If the war is over Manticore does what it does before: Trading!

Maldorian wrote:Manticore has an big trading fleet and it´s navy was created to protect them. If the war is over Manticore does what it does before: Trading!

And the consolidation of it's new empire. At this point in the story line, San Martin has been a part of the old Star Kingdom for around 5 years - Talbott and the Silesia partition, less. There are interesting times ahead as the Star Kingdom truly becomes the Star Empire, and the entire political landscape will be very different in 1950 pd. It remains to be seen if any of the former Havenite systems join the SEM as well, so it is very possible there could be a 3rd lobe of the Star Empire, centered on Trevor's Star.

Theemile wrote:

Maldorian wrote:Manticore has an big trading fleet and it´s navy was created to protect them. If the war is over Manticore does what it does before: Trading!

And the consolidation of it's new empire. At this point in the story line, San Martin has been a part of the old Star Kingdom for around 5 years - Talbott and the Silesia partition, less. There are interesting times ahead as the Star Kingdom truly becomes the Star Empire, and the entire political landscape will be very different in 1950 pd. It remains to be seen if any of the former Havenite systems join the SEM as well, so it is very possible there could be a 3rd lobe of the Star Empire, centered on Trevor's Star.

And, of course, there's also the navigation of their new relationship with Haven to figure out. RFC hinted at one point that a sort of EU-like reciprocal citizenship arrangement might be put into place between the RoH and SEM (yes, I screamed my throat raw when I heard ), and they're going to have to deal with all the minutia of that, plus sorting out those messy diplomatic details they didn't necessarily have time for when they were busy shooting at people.

The merchant marine is also going to be a priority, especially taking advantage of the new possibilities Talbott opens up, and similar will be made available through Trevor's Star (to central Haven and anywhere else convenient wormhole junctions might exist).

On the military side, some serious revamping will need to be done of the Saganami Island curriculum to account for the massive technology leaps that happened during the war, and they'll need to get their officers reasonably comfortable with up-to-date Havenite tech as well. There'll also probably be arrangements made to compare notes between Haven's naval academy and SI, with a possible partial merging of curriculae to make everyone's lives a bit easier, and of course Haven will be taking advantage of Manticore's higher technology levels to improve their own systems and teaching tools.

Shall I go on?

roseandheather wrote:On the military side, some serious revamping will need to be done of the Saganami Island curriculum to account for the massive technology leaps that happened during the war, and they'll need to get their officers reasonably comfortable with up-to-date Havenite tech as well. There'll also probably be arrangements made to compare notes between Haven's naval academy and SI, with a possible partial merging of curriculae to make everyone's lives a bit easier, and of course Haven will be taking advantage of Manticore's higher technology levels to improve their own systems and teaching tools.

Shall I go on?

Not to mention they're going to want to reevaluate their ship designs once they're not in war emergency mode; especially around the lighter units.

What do we need for commerce protection given:
a) trade in Silesia, Talbott, and the Republic of Haven shouldn't need convoys or escorts; but
b) there may be enough economic or diplomatic demand to run trade into the ex-Fringe or Shell; and those areas might be unstable enough to need anti-piracy patrols / escorts.

Rolands, and even Sag-Cs are awfully short-handed for that kind of work (boarding parties or prize crews). Do you need DDMs now, or are ERMs more than sufficient? If DDMs do you want a Super-Roland CL or a less automated Sag-C? etc. etc.

The demands on ships in peacetime are different than in a high intensity war and BuShips will need to re-balance to with that (while still retaining capabilities that are useful should a full high intensity war reoccur)

Jonathan_S wrote:What do we need for commerce protection given:
a) trade in Silesia, Talbott, and the Republic of Haven shouldn't need convoys or escorts; but
b) there may be enough economic or diplomatic demand to run trade into the ex-Fringe or Shell; and those areas might be unstable enough to need anti-piracy patrols / escorts.

Rolands, and even Sag-Cs are awfully short-handed for that kind of work (boarding parties or prize crews). Do you need DDMs now, or are ERMs more than sufficient? If DDMs do you want a Super-Roland CL or a less automated Sag-C? etc. etc.

The advent of the missile pod could go a long way towards stopping piracy of Manticoran shipping.

Consider: Manticore will have a lot of officers who aren't really needed in the peacetime navy. Lets find a new job for them: They go on Manticoran shipping that might encounter pirates. They also have a missile pod clamped to the hull. The officer's job is to fire the pod at any pirate that challenges them.

One missile pod (doesn't even need to be MDMs) with nothing but onboard guidance should be enough to take out just about any pirate out there. The word would quickly spread that going after Manticoran shipping was a suicide mission.

Loren Pechtel wrote:The advent of the missile pod could go a long way towards stopping piracy of Manticoran shipping.

Consider: Manticore will have a lot of officers who aren't really needed in the peacetime navy. Lets find a new job for them: They go on Manticoran shipping that might encounter pirates. They also have a missile pod clamped to the hull. The officer's job is to fire the pod at any pirate that challenges them.

One missile pod (doesn't even need to be MDMs) with nothing but onboard guidance should be enough to take out just about any pirate out there. The word would quickly spread that going after Manticoran shipping was a suicide mission.

Missiles without firecontrol are myopic and virtually useless; even at SDM ranges. You need sensor and firecontrol links to coach the missiles close enough that they can achieve an autonomous terminal attack. Just bolting a pod to the side of a freighter; with a "fire" button wired to the bridge seems almost totally ineffective; at least given how RFC has explained his missile combat.

Note that even after towed pod (SDM) combat became the norm during the 1st war nobody tried using bolt-on pods to deter piracy in Silesia - even when they were risking major economic losses due to the trade becoming unprofitably (due to insurance costs). They wouldn't have bothered to send Honor's Q-ships if a bolt-on pod was an effective solution.


And that ignores how many systems are going to be unhappy allowing armed civilian ships into their territory.

The Star Kingdom has been fighting for its life, all of its life. At least since the wormhole junctions were discovered. Actually, ever since King Roger foresaw that Manticore needed a serious military.

At that point, they either had to fight to hold the junctions and or their unprecedented growth in carrying trade or be ready to fight to defend either, while always fighting the entity of time. In a state of war or in an ever ready state of war, is essentially the same - less body count, or perhaps the body count remains the same or increases with peace - counting the many applicants who may be rejected because an RMN at peace has reached its saturation point, or flunk out and yet who applied with the potential skills of a Tremaine or Harkness, because of position availability. Without war, how large can Manticore's Navy afford to swell? The equation would be interesting.

Now that the war is over, the giant that is Manticore will bloom. My personal pet is that militarily, Saganami Island will become even more legendary. Encouraging polities to break off from the League by offering their local navy the advantages of being trained at Saganami Island is a nice piece of cheese to dangle. Especially considering the new landscape and frontier forming on the horizon along with the new dangers it brings, kindled after the League splinters and becomes a Soviet Union. (Yet even the Old Soviets are beginning to show a sign of life with the news of the huge increase in new submarine commissions.)

Another pet peeve is in considering what's in store in the advancement in tech from the alliance formed from the two biggest and longest winded warriors of the galaxy. The tech that will continue to pour out of Bolthole in time of peace will be interesting. What's more is the fact that many of the advancements will remain classified for years until needed.


It is interesting to me that Manticore was this tiny little polity minding its own business, with a carrying trade like ants - with the efficiency of, as well. Then some menace attacked. Manticore swelling into the GA is the most extreme example of what happens upon waking the sleeping giant. The effect of that awakening would be akin to Japan awakening a sleeping Giant by throwing shit in his face.


Yet, emerging as the preeminent galactic superpower comes with an innate responsibility. Someone, rhymes with Manticore, has to displace the League in enforcing the Eradani Edict - the deterrent must remain. However, a very subtle yet poignant point is that the GA now becomes the new League in the minds of many of the smaller worlds where the Manties had to 'take the gloves off.' Psychologically, when one grows so large, people begin to detest you on principal.

If so many core worlds join the Alliance then the Alliance is automatically indebted to provide the honor of the Queen. New members A, B and C... are now owed Manticoran escorts for their carrying trade. Especially in League space, where many disgruntled pre-pro-league worlds are thorns in your side.

Ultimately, what would be the GA's option, now finding itself approaching a mismanageable size as was the League, now forced to create appendages of itself to cope - also as the League when it formed Battle Fleet.

Tactically and strategically, isn't Manticore going to have to create a Sag 2 somewhere in current League space with a considerable fleet presence? Half of what the US, to maintain its preeminence had to do? Essentially with many military bases in foreign space...

Germany 56
Italy 113
Japan 84

Before long, such a superpower will begin to forge its most insane detractors.

How dilute will the Soul of Steel become when her Empire has grown to be so vast and corruption has attached itself like barnacles? Will she still be able to insist on her ideals? Will the honor of the Queen remain intact? What does younder time hold for the relationship of the three musketeers? Especially after Haven has elected a string of arsehole/wholearse partnerships worst than High Ridge/Janacek?

Now that the war is over, The Star Empire & Grayson can pay its debt to the treecats by expanding their galaxy wide rights and acceptance. It should no longer be tolerated that treecats may be hunted for science. If the slaves can be freed from their bondage, so can the 'cats from their enslavement from the basic rights of a civil existence. In time, will the 'cats want representation in Manticoran government?

All now that the war is over and other things are naturally illuminated, that is.

In many prolong generations to come, isn't the GA inevitably headed for battle with itself?

I think it could be up to decades before the fires of the war start to burn out.

You presenty have the entire SL plus the protectorates, the various strongman systems and all of the other star systems plus transtellars out there and the League has yet to fragment. Don't look for that to happen in two years.

You also have the RF out there designed and waiting to be a dozen rally points for systems (former League members or not) to join with to help defend each other.

Manticore and Haven along with the former members of the older Manticor Alliance (Alderman Empire, Grayson, Erwhon etc) may have a more peacefull time withing their own territories but that is still iffy. Manticore and the Aldermani are still going to ride close herd on their pieces of Silesia. Manticore is going to have to deal with Talbott Quadrant's non-Manticorian systems and with the growing pains of those SEM systems in the Quadrant. Maya will have it's own challanges.

The weckage of the SL and it's frontiers is going to take time to become that wreckage and to start sorting itself out. That sorting process looks to be bloody. Not sure if Haven and Manticore can even really attempt to stop much of what they may find there when they venture back in. And venture in they will because that is one of the places that the trade is going to be. Systems in the old League and even the Verge are going to both have things to sell and be wanting to buy. The GA may no (probably willl not) play the role of enforcer of peace but they are going to have to go back to -at least for Manticore- the role of commerce protector. Given that is is Manticore, they will also protect any other commerce that they chance upon in need.

So there may be DECADES of Silesia writ large in the former SL and it's frontiers and needing to deal with piracy and other problems.

There is also the Alignment to find, root out and deal with.

RNM, RHN and friends are going to have to continue to maintain and continue to improve their warfighting capabilities while shifting some of at least the existing warships over or back over to commerce protection.

Haven is probably going to continue to move forward with the restructuring of relationships of former conquests that was talked about earlier in the series. They are also going to have to then provide for some of their security as well

Beowulf and what becomes of it and it's existing connections with neighbors and trading partners will be fascinating.

Interesting times

cthia wrote:The Star Kingdom has been fighting for its life, all of its life. At least since the wormhole junctions were discovered. Actually, ever since King Roger foresaw that Manticore needed a serious military.

At that point, they either had to fight to hold the junctions and or their unprecedented growth in carrying trade or be ready to fight to defend either, while always fighting the entity of time. In a state of war or in an ever ready state of war, is essentially the same - less body count, or perhaps the body count remains the same or increases with peace - counting the many applicants who may be rejected because an RMN at peace has reached its saturation point, or flunk out and yet who applied with the potential skills of a Tremaine or Harkness, because of position availability. Without war, how large can Manticore's Navy afford to swell? The equation would be interesting.

Um, Roger saw the need for an expanded military something like 300 years after the Manticoran Wormhole Junction was discovered; though admittedly a couple decades before the penultimate (to date) terminus at Basilisk was found.

Not yet King, Roger, expressed the need for naval expansion around 1845 PD.
The Peeps kicked off their conquistador tendencies about 1850 PD (though the economic writing had been on the wall for a while before that)
Basilisk Terminus was discovered around 1865 PD.
And the wars ran from 1905 PD - 1922 PD (so far).

So even counting the build-up we're talking less than 80 years out of the Star Kingdom's 437 years. And the Junction has been known for 337 of those - most of which time they were at peace. A bit of a fight right around the time the Junction was discovered, then mostly low level anti-piracy or trade protection.

And given the lifespans of people with Prolong there are plenty of people around who remember the pre-Roger RMN and the peace Manticore enjoyed at that time. I don't think it'll be such a large transition as you think to scale back from full war footing to refocus on other actions. (Though I don't think Manticore will have things as peaceful as they did in the couple hundred years leading up to King Roger).