Scenario of War with the League

Weird Harold wrote:With the limitations you place on RMN tech, the Grand Alliance would not form and the SLN numerical superiority would be overwhelming. There would probably not be a Talbott Quadrant because there would have been no "Building The Peace" research grants to find the Lynx terminus.

Specifically, with the limitations you've placed on the RMN most of the story RFC wrote would not have happened. The RMN would not be pushed into a war they cannot win, and the SLN contingency plans would work the way they always have if Manticore did get into a war with the SLN.

Sigs wrote:At the end of the day the League is getting defeated, whether it is defeated in battle after battle and conquered bit by bit or it is defeated through the use of diplomacy at the end of the day it makes no difference to the league as it will cease to exist in it's current form.

With the limitations you've placed on the technology, the RMN will suffer a great deal of attrition even if they win a battle. The RMN can't sustain the kind of casualties an advantage less than that provided by the MK-16G would produce. Even if they do have an ERM range advantage, that is only going to give them one or two salvos before a fight descends into a furball. Military defeat of the SLN is probably NOT going to happen under your restrictions.

Politically, the Solarian League is going to fall apart whether Manticore, the GA, or MAlign do their worst or nothing at all. The only questions are "how long will it take?" and "how bloody is it going to be?" Without the Tech advantage RFC has given Manticore and the Grand Alliance for numbers, the best thing Manticore can do is play "turtle" and spend more on R&D until the League self-destructs.

Relax wrote:Sigs, missing the major point: No one has ever claimed that BF does not have some light units. It certainly does as BOMA II showed. The books have made abundantly clear, that the majority of BF's units should the SLN find itself in a war was supposed to be from FF.

Weird Harold wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Well the RMN would still have the accel advantage.

With the limitations that Sigs specifies, there is no way that Manticore can win the numbers war. Their advantages other than range aren't enough to engage the SLN without sustaining some damage in any engagement and they don't have the numbers to sustain any kind of damage for any length of time.

Sigs wrote:Is the league a rotten house sitting on a rotten foundation? or is the League able to survive?

I don't care how the GA was formed and I don't care how the war started, all I am asking is in this scenario does the League go down in bitter defeat or do their chances improve?

Weird Harold wrote:

Relax wrote:Sigs said no podnaughts and no MDM's. Said nothing about fire control. All of the ships at that time were being built with vastly higher numbers of control channels to handle even more pods on tow.

"Ships being built at that time" -- ie pre-buttercup" -- were largely pod-noughts building up to Buttercup. Presumably Sigs means designs older than those used in Buttercup except for CLACs, Shrikes and Ferrets.

Even conventional designs with extra fire-control channels -- or Havenites using Forracker's rotating FC Links -- wouldn't have the same sort of capability built for Buttercup.

Even with extra fire-control and 1920-ish flat-pack pods the RMN doesn't have the numbers for a war of attrition and without a significant range advantage they WILL take damage/losses in every battle.

Brigade XO wrote:PRESUMING...the GA is formed after Battle of Manticore....that presumes that 8th Fleet still contributes to the willing of Battle of Manticore and Honor still goes to Haven and there is a GA formed from the terms Honor. Except why would they be forming that alliance without the Alignment as the primary motivator.

Sigs wrote:You do realise that the GA consists of more than just the RMN? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Haven and Grayson were part of the GA as well.

Weird Harold wrote:

Sigs wrote:Is the league a rotten house sitting on a rotten foundation? or is the League able to survive?

I don't care how the GA was formed and I don't care how the war started, all I am asking is in this scenario does the League go down in bitter defeat or do their chances improve?

Neither the League or GA will survive. The League is rotten and will self-destruct, but not fast enough to save the GA.

Weird Harold wrote:

Sigs wrote:You do realise that the GA consists of more than just the RMN? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Haven and Grayson were part of the GA as well.

With the restrictions you've placed on Manticoran (and Manticoran Alliance, the probability of Haven joining the Grand Alliance is NIL.

Weird Harold wrote:Even if they did join with only single drive missiles, the SLN's numbers would destroy the GA through attrition and/or numerical advantage. The SLN's traditional strategy would work against any level of pre-MDM force.

Sigs wrote:Did you read the numbers I posted? How does the SLN have the overwhelming numbers when they also have 20 times the territory to defend? If the GA had to protect Manticore, Grayson, Haven, Bolthole and maybe a dozen to 2 dozen other systems while the SLN has to protect several hundred core worlds which will be screaming for protection.