Religion in the Honorverse and potential issues

This thread should really be moved to the Politics forum, where there is another active discussion.
I'll comment just the same.

Regarding deathbed conversions I can use an analogy of house insurance. Is it likely that my house will burn down, statistically very unlikely, however I'm happier taking out insurance just in case. For many, a deathbed conversion is free insurance just in case. Pity if they pick the wrong religion though. I'm certain that deathbed conversions to not believing have unfortunately been common. When in war or religious strife someone sees their family slaughtered and themselves to be next it would shake anyone's faith. Stop press - what about Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani?


Regarding the existence of god as being the most important question of all, not remotely. If she does exist she has been remarkably ineffective throughout recorded history. There is not one case of divine intervention that would stand up in a court of law. So existence or not is not a biggie, as it doesn't impact on us in any measurable way, except for humans using it as an excuse to wreak havoc.

Regarding conflict between science and religion, the only conflict is when people with scientific training try to use their skills to analyse religion, and find that logic doesn't work. Scientists can be religious, but must turn off normal scepticism when they "get" religion.

That is only half the conflict. People with a religious background attempt to use their source of divine insight to contradict or ban science (see creationism, young earth creationism, Galileo, etc...).

Daryl wrote:Regarding conflict between science and religion, the only conflict is when people with scientific training try to use their skills to analyse religion, and find that logic doesn't work. Scientists can be religious, but must turn off normal scepticism when they "get" religion.

Wow, discussion got lively! To get back toward the original topic, the lack of formal chaplains in the RMN strikes me as the inevitable result of a multicultural society like Manticore and the Honorverse in general. There are pockets of monoculture like Grayson, which was founded by a religious sect, or the Judean League, not surprising given the "us against the world" outlook of much of Jewish society, which resulted from centuries of anti-Semitism.

The real puzzle, to me, is why widespread religion has survived in the Honorverse. I would have expected only small sects, and mostly on planets that experienced neobarb periods (which Manticore did not). Looking at history, we've gone from state religions and "divine right of kings" to a present day society where religious attendance is down, laissez-faire religious tolerance is a cultural norm in most democratic societies, and a Pew Forum survey in 2012 found "no religion" to be the fastest-growing religious demographic.

dscott8 wrote:The real puzzle, to me, is why widespread religion has survived in the Honorverse. I would have expected only small sects, and mostly on planets that experienced neobarb periods (which Manticore did not). Looking at history, we've gone from state religions and "divine right of kings" to a present day society where religious attendance is down, laissez-faire religious tolerance is a cultural norm in most democratic societies, and a Pew Forum survey in 2012 found "no religion" to be the fastest-growing religious demographic.

Yeah, but that's in our modern western society. I would imagine that the hardships colony worlds go through would result in a resurgence of faith; it doesn't need a complete reversion to the dark ages for people to seek comfort in faith.

dscott8 wrote:Wow, discussion got lively! To get back toward the original topic, the lack of formal chaplains in the RMN strikes me as the inevitable result of a multicultural society like Manticore and the Honorverse in general. There are pockets of monoculture like Grayson, which was founded by a religious sect, or the Judean League, not surprising given the "us against the world" outlook of much of Jewish society, which resulted from centuries of anti-Semitism.

The real puzzle, to me, is why widespread religion has survived in the Honorverse. I would have expected only small sects, and mostly on planets that experienced neobarb periods (which Manticore did not). Looking at history, we've gone from state religions and "divine right of kings" to a present day society where religious attendance is down, laissez-faire religious tolerance is a cultural norm in most democratic societies, and a Pew Forum survey in 2012 found "no religion" to be the fastest-growing religious demographic.

Nice move to get us back on topic; I'll reinforce.

Remember that this is set 2,000 years in the future; religions have changed/evolved a great deal in the past 2,000 years and there is no reason to believe that they wouldn't continue to.

Note; I doubt most 'devout' Christians today would accept plural marriages, but the Graysons were able to fit their creed (albeit there are indications that they had adopted some Mormon bits, so it may not have been an unfamiliar attitude) to adapt to the conditions they found and the need to survive; more to the point, Bishop Telemachi and the 'establishment' Church on Manticore was able to embrace the Alexander-Harrington marriage, something I think you'd be hard-pressed to find in any of today's 'establishment' faiths.

And except for obvious ceremonies (birth/death/marriage), we haven't seen religion impose on Government (except for Grayson, but they are a special case).

If I had to guess, faiths in the Honorverse tend towards the 'spiritual' side and towards the 'glass houses' approach, instead of going around condemning this or that. And there will be people (even in the future) will probably look for that spiritual side.

IMHO as always. YMMV.