Abigail's first ship

Shouts at Clouds wrote:You guys do recall that Abigail is in the GSN, not the RMN, don't you? She literally cannot command a RMN ship anymore that a British officer could command a USN ship.

So what happens if the USS Winston Churchill is attacked, and all the USN officers onboard are killed but the RN officer onboard survives?

PalmerSperry wrote:

Shouts at Clouds wrote:You guys do recall that Abigail is in the GSN, not the RMN, don't you? She literally cannot command a RMN ship anymore that a British officer could command a USN ship.

So what happens if the USS Winston Churchill is attacked, and all the USN officers onboard are killed but the RN officer onboard survives?

The RN officer in question is with in the chain of command. There are currently about 2000 Canadians serving with the US Army US Marines both officers and enlisted. The USN has a mix of about 2500 personnel from the RN RAN RNZN RNN RNoN and RCN. There is also a NATO DD/FF squadron from all the NATO navies where the command rotates.

We have to look at two different way she can get command of a ship. One assuming command due to every one ahead of her in the chain of command getting rendered unable to command. Two her getting a formal command assignment by GSN high command. Depending on how things play out she could end up doing both ways.

Commanding a shattered wreck is a pretty hard task, but not a lot of fun.

munroburton wrote:

Going straight to the Crusher before her first official command is even likelier. Especially if she inherits tactical command and saves the ship.

Somtaaw replied

Nitpick, isn't going straight to the Crusher before official command the most common path to commanding a warship?

It was specified early, that Honor was lucky to command at least one hyper-capable warship prior to going to the Crusher, I believe it was the destroyer Hawkwing. One of the major reasons that may have changed was due to the wars with Haven, but Manticore still tried to send potential ship commanders to the Crusher first, because that was their final make/break test. If you fail the Crusher, you became a desk jockey REMF, or staff officer never again able to command directly.

Did Naomi Kaplan go to the Crusher? She was shipped home to Manticore via medivac. Did she get back to Manticore, get fixed up, and thrown immediately into the Crusher (which, IIRC, was a 6 month stint for Honor)? Or did they decide let her run a Roland-class DD before she was sent to the Crusher?

-- Bob G

BobG wrote:munroburton wrote:

Going straight to the Crusher before her first official command is even likelier. Especially if she inherits tactical command and saves the ship.

Somtaaw replied

Nitpick, isn't going straight to the Crusher before official command the most common path to commanding a warship?

It was specified early, that Honor was lucky to command at least one hyper-capable warship prior to going to the Crusher, I believe it was the destroyer Hawkwing. One of the major reasons that may have changed was due to the wars with Haven, but Manticore still tried to send potential ship commanders to the Crusher first, because that was their final make/break test. If you fail the Crusher, you became a desk jockey REMF, or staff officer never again able to command directly.

Did Naomi Kaplan go to the Crusher? She was shipped home to Manticore via medivac. Did she get back to Manticore, get fixed up, and thrown immediately into the Crusher (which, IIRC, was a 6 month stint for Honor)? Or did they decide let her run a Roland-class DD before she was sent to the Crusher?

-- Bob G

according to OBS there is actually two courses. the commanding officers course which honor took before she took command of hawkwing, and the Advanced tactical course, also known as the crusher, which she took AFTER she was relieved of the hawkwing.

At the end of “Let’s Dance!” found in "In Fire Forged"
“I believe that the reason he came to that view, Commander,” the First Space Lord of the Royal Manticoran Navy continued, “is that ATC is beginning a new training cycle next month. If we hadn’t expedited the paperwork to get you out of command of Hawkwing, it would have been impossible for us to fit you into that cycle, and you would have had to wait another six T-months before you could attend it.”

Pre first haven war: no one who hadn’t passed ATC could ever hope to command anything heavier or more prestigious than that outdated destroyer.

with the press of officers during the war, I would not be surprised if the prewar stance on the crusher had loosened up. I can see most officers first destroyer commands being before the crusher, with ATC required for a heavy cruiser command or better.

Regarding ATC, I have a theory that I haven't seen in print yet, which is that entry into ATC is probably at the lieutenant commander grade, and most likely would occur when an officer is going to be assigned as an XO. That would also make sense in terms of command if the skipper of a ship is KIA or wounded sufficiently that the XO has to assume command.

My logic is that we never once read about any of Honor's XO's needing to go to the Crusher before they get their next command, ergo they've already gone through first. So barring the rest of the command structure being taken out of commission, Abigail is still likely two missions/advancements plus ATC short of her own ship.

Yes/no?

SharkHunter wrote:Abigail is still likely two missions/advancements plus ATC short of her own ship.

Yes/no?

Good logic but it doesn't apply to Abigail; She's GSN, not RMN and we haven't seen anything about a Grayson ATC or requirement for command.

Abigail will probably attend the Crusher, but not because of the RMN's policy; it is simply a good class for anyone in the tactical/command track.

BobG wrote:Did Naomi Kaplan go to the Crusher? She was shipped home to Manticore via medivac. Did she get back to Manticore, get fixed up, and thrown immediately into the Crusher (which, IIRC, was a 6 month stint for Honor)? Or did they decide let her run a Roland-class DD before she was sent to the Crusher?

-- Bob G

I don't know where, exactly, but Kaplan once talked about things her instructors at ATC told her, so she probably went through it some time before being posted to Hexapuma.

The E wrote:

BobG wrote:Did Naomi Kaplan go to the Crusher? She was shipped home to Manticore via medivac. Did she get back to Manticore, get fixed up, and thrown immediately into the Crusher (which, IIRC, was a 6 month stint for Honor)? Or did they decide let her run a Roland-class DD before she was sent to the Crusher?

-- Bob G

I don't know where, exactly, but Kaplan once talked about things her instructors at ATC told her, so she probably went through it some time before being posted to Hexapuma.

However, it looks like the GSN is making sure she gets all her cards punched - thoroughly - before she gets into a GSN command position. They want to make sure NO ONE can possibly argue with her command capabilities, either in real life or on paper. She's the blueprint for getting native Female officers in the GSN, and they don't want anything trivial to stop that. If it take 5 different iterations of ATC and the Crusher to do that - Abigale will be on the next liner to New Berlin to get the IAN version under her belt.