A question about the battle of Saltash

phillies wrote:It would be nice if the illustrious author gave the SLN *one* officer who is smart enough to win a battle with the RMN despite his technical inferiority. Yes, it might be very difficult.

I see no reason to think the Sollies have such an officer. Their system is not set up in a fashion that would promote such a person. While they might have someone who is actually capable they're going to be very junior and not in a position to actually do anything meaningful.

The problem with trying to hold an empty piece of normal space outside the hyperlimit is that you have, for months at a time, the chance that in 5 seconds a battle fleet will appear and drop on you and be actively trying to kill you.

How long will you really remain ready for action? How long can you? How long before you have to be performing maintenance procedures inconsistent with being really ready to fight?

Anyone dropping in knows damn well when the battle will take place, the defense doesn't. So they will always have at least tactical surprise.

Loren Pechtel wrote:I see no reason to think the Sollies have such an officer. Their system is not set up in a fashion that would promote such a person. While they might have someone who is actually capable they're going to be very junior and not in a position to actually do anything meaningful.

The US Navy in November 1941 didn't have that kind of officer. The US Navy in 1942 had more. By 1944 they had a lot.

darrell wrote:

pnakasone wrote:Is there a difference between the limit of how far in to a system you can jump into real space vs jumping into hyper space? Now as a matter of good sense you want to be able to reenter hyper as quickly as you can if you spot trouble.

The info can be found in the books. from "more than honor" attempting to translate into hyperspace inside the hyper limit or above .3 C caused instant destruction of the ship.

attempting to translate into normal space inside the hyper limit but near the edge causes the destruction of the ship.

attempting to translate into normal space inside the hyper limit but deeper in system (or planet, in the case of some gas giants) caused the ship to bounce back into hyperspace.

You've got the edge vs center of the hyper limit effects backwards. (Also that comes from Echoes of Honor; More Than Honor only mentions the .3c speed limit for entry)

Echoes of Honor: Ch. 33 wrote:Overshooting their intended n-space translation point wouldn't be all that terrible . . . unless, of course, they overshot it too badly. A ship which attempted to translate out of hyper inside a star's hyper limit couldn't. As long as it made the attempt within the outer twenty percent of the hyper limit, all that happened was that it couldn't get into n-space. If it made the attempt any further in than that, however, Bad Things happened. Someone had once described the result as using a pulse cannon to fire soft-boiled eggs at a stone wall to see if they would bounce. Lester Tourville rather doubted they would, and even if he was wrong, it was a proposition he had no desire at all to test firsthand.

So you can see it's the outer 20% edge that's safer and the inner 80% center that's deadly.

kzt wrote:

Loren Pechtel wrote:I see no reason to think the Sollies have such an officer. Their system is not set up in a fashion that would promote such a person. While they might have someone who is actually capable they're going to be very junior and not in a position to actually do anything meaningful.

The US Navy in November 1941 didn't have that kind of officer. The US Navy in 1942 had more. By 1944 they had a lot.

It has been noted that your best officers at dealing with the politics of a peace time military are not the best ones for fighting a war. The reverse is also true as best war fighting officers are often the least able to deal with the politics of a peace time military.

phillies wrote:It would be nice if the illustrious author gave the SLN *one* officer who is smart enough to win a battle with the RMN despite his technical inferiority. Yes, it might be very difficult.

A successful political officer is not the same as a successful tactician.

The SL promotes good political officers. Therefore I would doubt that a SL admiral would be able to get a victory against manticore.

There will be some good tacticians in the SL, but I doubt that they would be ranked higher than a captain, and may be commander or lt commander.

Loren Pechtel wrote:

phillies wrote:It would be nice if the illustrious author gave the SLN *one* officer who is smart enough to win a battle with the RMN despite his technical inferiority. Yes, it might be very difficult.

I see no reason to think the Sollies have such an officer. Their system is not set up in a fashion that would promote such a person. While they might have someone who is actually capable they're going to be very junior and not in a position to actually do anything meaningful.

You never know, a very junior officer may be the only surviving officer after some unfortunate accident or battle action - and it turns out that officer is very capable indeed. It's not like it has never happened before..

Joat42 wrote:

Loren Pechtel wrote:I see no reason to think the Sollies have such an officer. Their system is not set up in a fashion that would promote such a person. While they might have someone who is actually capable they're going to be very junior and not in a position to actually do anything meaningful.

You never know, a very junior officer may be the only surviving officer after some unfortunate accident or battle action - and it turns out that officer is very capable indeed. It's not like it has never happened before..

If that junior officer is being shot at, then probably not. I can't help thinking of the saying, a great baker can make an excellent apple pie if he has the correct ingredients, whilst a poor baker may only produce an adequate pie. However, if either baker only has access to mud, you're not getting any apple pies.

All the SLN has are a few orchards and muddy fields. Some rotten apples, no flour, an overmilked cow about to die. Good luck.

I do wonder about that officer Byng had thrown off his flagship simply for making a genuine assessment of the RMN's capabilities. That was obviously contrived to prevent him from dying when Byng did. Unfortunately, he's not going anywhere soon - it's entirely conceivable that the entire Sol bureaucracy has forgotten about them after Spindle, Laocoon and 2nd Manticore eclipsed New Tuscany.

So why would MWW plant a character like that in New Tuscany for a few years, sitting on the side of the Talbott Quadrant, watching and collecting reports of the SEM's development efforts in general, but also particularly their system defense strategies?

munroburton wrote:
If that junior officer is being shot at, then probably not. I can't help thinking of the saying, a great baker can make an excellent apple pie if he has the correct ingredients, whilst a poor baker may only produce an adequate pie. However, if either baker only has access to mud, you're not getting any apple pies.

All the SLN has are a few orchards and muddy fields. Some rotten apples, no flour, an overmilked cow about to die. Good luck.

I do wonder about that officer Byng had thrown off his flagship simply for making a genuine assessment of the RMN's capabilities. That was obviously contrived to prevent him from dying when Byng did. Unfortunately, he's not going anywhere soon - it's entirely conceivable that the entire Sol bureaucracy has forgotten about them after Spindle, Laocoon and 2nd Manticore eclipsed New Tuscany.

So why would MWW plant a character like that in New Tuscany for a few years, sitting on the side of the Talbott Quadrant, watching and collecting reports of the SEM's development efforts in general, but also particularly their system defense strategies?

But if he going to learn anything about RMN tactics, why out at New Tuscany. It's not a SEM territory, it won't have SEM defenses, just some visiting RMN ships to glower at the NTN.

Maybe he will use his "Public Relations" position to milk reporters for information and/or slip off planet to get a look at the defenses at Prairie. That would explain that particular part of that musket. ("Why a 'PR' position?".) He will probably be in a position to innocently interview everybody he wants ("Anything you want to tell the people at home?") and will be able to find any TAC people who can give him more information on the encounter with the Manty fleet. If any on the above is true, his report should be interesting - the question is who will read it - maybe those same press contacts...

Is it just me, or does it feel that there are too many of Chekov's Muskets still in play to casually fill 2 books - At this point DW has an entire armory hanging over the mantle, spilling out into the room. It just feels like too much at this point.

Theemile wrote:

munroburton wrote:
If that junior officer is being shot at, then probably not. I can't help thinking of the saying, a great baker can make an excellent apple pie if he has the correct ingredients, whilst a poor baker may only produce an adequate pie. However, if either baker only has access to mud, you're not getting any apple pies.

All the SLN has are a few orchards and muddy fields. Some rotten apples, no flour, an overmilked cow about to die. Good luck.

I do wonder about that officer Byng had thrown off his flagship simply for making a genuine assessment of the RMN's capabilities. That was obviously contrived to prevent him from dying when Byng did. Unfortunately, he's not going anywhere soon - it's entirely conceivable that the entire Sol bureaucracy has forgotten about them after Spindle, Laocoon and 2nd Manticore eclipsed New Tuscany.

So why would MWW plant a character like that in New Tuscany for a few years, sitting on the side of the Talbott Quadrant, watching and collecting reports of the SEM's development efforts in general, but also particularly their system defense strategies?

But if he going to learn anything about RMN tactics, why out at New Tuscany. It's not a SEM territory, it won't have SEM defenses, just some visiting RMN ships to glower at the NTN.

Maybe he will use his "Public Relations" position to milk reporters for information and/or slip off planet to get a look at the defenses at Prairie. That would explain that particular part of that musket. ("Why a 'PR' position?".) He will probably be in a position to innocently interview everybody he wants ("Anything you want to tell the people at home?") and will be able to find any TAC people who can give him more information on the encounter with the Manty fleet. If any on the above is true, his report should be interesting - the question is who will read it - maybe those same press contacts...

Is it just me, or does it feel that there are too many of Chekov's Muskets still in play to casually fill 2 books - At this point DW has an entire armory hanging over the mantle, spilling out into the room. It just feels like too much at this point.

IIRC, as part of the aftermath of the New Tuscany Incident, the local political calculus was in high flux. The antagonism towards the SEM was only being pushed by Mesan proxies, now removed from the situation. A closer relationship between New Tuscany and the Talbott members of the SEM is inevitable, even if New Tuscany doesn't go for membership. So merchants will pass in and out regularly, carrying news as well as cargo - NT has a modest merchant marine, so they're not totally reliant on other shipping.

Compare that with the intel officers on Sol or elsewhere in the Core. Even if Solarian shipping was allowed into Manty space, the time lags involved are enormous.

This isn't some short-term plant - I'm thinking he'll be there for at least four more years, long enough for the League to be destroyed. If he is a Chekov's Gun, the trigger won't be pulled until the era Honor's kids are/were supposed to take over.