WWYD

Hail them and offer to turn them over, implying that I was always planning something like this.

Meshakhad wrote:Hail them and offer to turn them over, implying that I was always planning something like this.

Good shot, Meshakhad.

Actually, I thought of it myself. I suppose it is the most obvious and natural lie.

But to really sell it, as an ingenious pirate - an old pirate who didn't get so by being dumb - I'd tell all the slaves beforehand that I was going to set them free, just in case I was captured. That way, I have them as witnesses.

Zakharra wrote:If I was psychotic enough to haul slaves as cargo, knowing what they were and what they where going to (more slavery), I'd tell the Manty BC what I was carrying, then vent the cargo holds with the slaves while taunting the Manty's for their helplessness and laughing maniacally, give them the finger and set the reactor into overload.

BOOM. Goodbye for me and my ship

Why? Because the best I could hope for is life in prison. Which is unlikely. It's far more likely that slavers are tried and executed.

All of this is of course, assuming I was alive that far in the future and psychotic enough to traffic in slaves in the first place.

Which I am not, thankfully.

I am not judging your decision, but it and a few others seem to definitely not believe in - unlike Admiral James T. Kirk - a NO WIN SCENARIO.

Like Kirk, I'll take my chances with whatever contingency plans I've laid. A Moby Dick of a fishing tail.

I'll not execute myself. Who knows, I could be offered a rare pardon to become a stool pigeon.

Hey, when your own ass is the hamburger on the butcher's block. It's suddenly prime rib estate.

cthia wrote:

Zakharra wrote:If I was psychotic enough to haul slaves as cargo, knowing what they were and what they where going to (more slavery), I'd tell the Manty BC what I was carrying, then vent the cargo holds with the slaves while taunting the Manty's for their helplessness and laughing maniacally, give them the finger and set the reactor into overload.

BOOM. Goodbye for me and my ship

Why? Because the best I could hope for is life in prison. Which is unlikely. It's far more likely that slavers are tried and executed.

All of this is of course, assuming I was alive that far in the future and psychotic enough to traffic in slaves in the first place.

Which I am not, thankfully.

I am not judging your decision, but it and a few others seem to definitely not believe in - unlike Admiral James T. Kirk - a NO WIN SCENARIO.

Like Kirk, I'll take my chances with whatever contingency plans I've laid. A Moby Dick of a fishing tail.

I'll not execute myself. Who knows, I could be offered a rare pardon to become a stool pigeon.

Hey, when your own ass is the hamburger on the butcher's block. It's suddenly prime rib estate.

Unfortunately, unlike Captain Kirk's Kobayashi Maru no-win scenario.... this isn't something played out on a computer program he can reprogram to MAKE a way to win.

For the Manticoran ship intercepting us, as slavers... the ONLY way for them to "win" is to successfully get the slaves off our ship (alive). Anything additional, such as turning some of us to turn State's Witness, or flip to help capture other slavers is a bonus, but not the main objective.

For us, the hypothetical slavers, we have multiple ways to 'win'. Obviously the best way to win is to somehow escape, but in descending order:
1) Sucessfully escape while the Manty sits there, beret in hand, unable to do anything
2) Successfully escape, after having taken fire from said Manty, some KIA/WIA, but ship and cargo more or less intact.
3) Successfully escape, ship and cargo shot to ****, but us slaver captains are alive, and not compromised by being an active Manty collaborator.
4) There's actually another warship nearby, in stealth, that comes to your aid (think Hellbarde coming to protect 'Sittich' against the Jessica Epps, despite the Sittich being a very obvious fake)
5) Space the slaves, and somehow manage to lie your way through the boarding party.... rather unlikely since Manticore subscribes to the Cherwell modification, any ship with the equipment of a slaver IS a slaver, whether slaves are there or not
6) Self-destruct the ship, take to life boats and proceed to lie and deny absolutely everything, bonus points if you took the steps to try and set conditions that your ship was already unstable and you were broadcasting emergency "help us now, we took damage and our reactor is going critical" prior to the scuttle charges/reactor detonation.
7) Realize all the above are mere fancy, and self-destruct WITHOUT evacuating any of your crew, or yourself. Technically not a win here, but because you denied the win to the Manticorans, you 'won' simply because you forced a no-win for everybody.



Without a little more detail about the interception, it's hard to really make any real calls:
-year this is happening, pre-1900 or are we talking post-Oyster Bay?
-relative masses and ship classes involved (is our slaver ship something like the Hali Sowle, or the Marianne? Is the Manty a Star Knight or a Nike?)
-Was there intelligence that led to this intercept (like the Jessica Epps and Sittich in Zoraster, or was this simply good luck for the Manty?)
-Is there another warship around you can scream for help from 'pirates' and try to use the confusion for something?
-probably the most important question is whether this is actually part of a CONVOY of slavers, multiple ships in concert. if I can use my own energy weapons on another ship to lame it, I might escape at their expense.


Personally, I'd be aiming somewhere between options 2 or 3 and option 6... escape if at all possible, or ensure only reliable crewmen make it off that I can 100% rely upon to lie with me about not being slavers, and that the Manty must be mistaken. But if I see a treecat on even one of the broadcasts to surrender, and it's a post-Oyster Bay timeframe.... I'm going option 7 "true believer" style. I can't guarantee I can go down every beam firing, but that's the closest I'd get.

cthia wrote:

Zakharra wrote:If I was psychotic enough to haul slaves as cargo, knowing what they were and what they where going to (more slavery), I'd tell the Manty BC what I was carrying, then vent the cargo holds with the slaves while taunting the Manty's for their helplessness and laughing maniacally, give them the finger and set the reactor into overload.

BOOM. Goodbye for me and my ship

Why? Because the best I could hope for is life in prison. Which is unlikely. It's far more likely that slavers are tried and executed.

All of this is of course, assuming I was alive that far in the future and psychotic enough to traffic in slaves in the first place.

Which I am not, thankfully.

I am not judging your decision, but it and a few others seem to definitely not believe in - unlike Admiral James T. Kirk - a NO WIN SCENARIO.

Like Kirk, I'll take my chances with whatever contingency plans I've laid. A Moby Dick of a fishing tail.

I'll not execute myself. Who knows, I could be offered a rare pardon to become a stool pigeon.

Hey, when your own ass is the hamburger on the butcher's block. It's suddenly prime rib estate.

Somtaaw wrote:Unfortunately, unlike Captain Kirk's Kobayashi Maru no-win scenario.... this isn't something played out on a computer program he can reprogram to MAKE a way to win.

For the Manticoran ship intercepting us, as slavers... the ONLY way for them to "win" is to successfully get the slaves off our ship (alive). Anything additional, such as turning some of us to turn State's Witness, or flip to help capture other slavers is a bonus, but not the main objective.

For us, the hypothetical slavers, we have multiple ways to 'win'. Obviously the best way to win is to somehow escape, but in descending order:
1) Sucessfully escape while the Manty sits there, beret in hand, unable to do anything
2) Successfully escape, after having taken fire from said Manty, some KIA/WIA, but ship and cargo more or less intact.
3) Successfully escape, ship and cargo shot to ****, but us slaver captains are alive, and not compromised by being an active Manty collaborator.
4) There's actually another warship nearby, in stealth, that comes to your aid (think Hellbarde coming to protect 'Sittich' against the Jessica Epps, despite the Sittich being a very obvious fake)
5) Space the slaves, and somehow manage to lie your way through the boarding party.... rather unlikely since Manticore subscribes to the Cherwell modification, any ship with the equipment of a slaver IS a slaver, whether slaves are there or not
6) Self-destruct the ship, take to life boats and proceed to lie and deny absolutely everything, bonus points if you took the steps to try and set conditions that your ship was already unstable and you were broadcasting emergency "help us now, we took damage and our reactor is going critical" prior to the scuttle charges/reactor detonation.
7) Realize all the above are mere fancy, and self-destruct WITHOUT evacuating any of your crew, or yourself. Technically not a win here, but because you denied the win to the Manticorans, you 'won' simply because you forced a no-win for everybody.



Without a little more detail about the interception, it's hard to really make any real calls:
-year this is happening, pre-1900 or are we talking post-Oyster Bay?
-relative masses and ship classes involved (is our slaver ship something like the Hali Sowle, or the Marianne? Is the Manty a Star Knight or a Nike?)
-Was there intelligence that led to this intercept (like the Jessica Epps and Sittich in Zoraster, or was this simply good luck for the Manty?)
-Is there another warship around you can scream for help from 'pirates' and try to use the confusion for something?
-probably the most important question is whether this is actually part of a CONVOY of slavers, multiple ships in concert. if I can use my own energy weapons on another ship to lame it, I might escape at their expense.


Personally, I'd be aiming somewhere between options 2 or 3 and option 6... escape if at all possible, or ensure only reliable crewmen make it off that I can 100% rely upon to lie with me about not being slavers, and that the Manty must be mistaken. But if I see a treecat on even one of the broadcasts to surrender, and it's a post-Oyster Bay timeframe.... I'm going option 7 "true believer" style. I can't guarantee I can go down every beam firing, but that's the closest I'd get.

Yet, I remain alive until someone else kills me. Alive = hope. Death by own hands = no hope no chance.

I enjoyed this post. It is in the spirit I intended where the poster allows his imagination to run wild in supplying the conditions. Preconceived conditions are limiting. This way I was hoping to flesh out personal scenarios such as yours.

I was trying to respect the fact that there must be many conditions why the members of a ship could be caught with their pants down with slaves.

cthia wrote:Yet, I remain alive until someone else kills me. Alive = hope. Death by own hands = no hope no chance.

I enjoyed this post. It is in the spirit I intended where the poster allows his imagination to run wild in supplying the conditions. Preconceived conditions are limiting. This way I was hoping to flesh out personal scenarios such as yours.

I was trying to respect the fact that there must be many conditions why the members of a ship could be caught with their pants down with slaves.

Unfortunately, with the dictum that it's a Manty ship (assumption of cruiser) odds are better than 90% that you're only going to live until the Marine boarding parties drag you to an airlock, and the best you can hope for is to eat a pulser dart BEFORE they throw you out.

Slaving is almost automatic, guaranteed death in the event of being boarded, by Manticoran or Havenite cruisers. A pirate might survive with a wrist-slap and a hi-def picture taken, but a slaver's pretty well screwed.

Your only real hope is that you're not actually in a ship that's built for slaving, ie: you're coming off the equivilent of a vacation or shore leave, and you were just in the wrong place & time. But you wouldn't be commanding that shuttle, or if you were.... you could then play either:
a) "Manticorans?!? Thank god, I'm saved.... they took my ship by force, and made me fly this route"
b) "Commander, please I had no idea I was carrying such disgusting slavers on my passenger manifest. Please, take custody of those filthy slavers, and get them off my ship"

I suppose you could hail them, and tell them you hijacked the ship, intending to make for Manticore (or Haven, or Torch, or wherever else fits your course) and liberate the slaves? Whether they'd wear it or not, I wouldn't like to guess.
.

Somtaaw wrote:Unfortunately, unlike Captain Kirk's Kobayashi Maru no-win scenario.... this isn't something played out on a computer program he can reprogram to MAKE a way to win.

For the Manticoran ship intercepting us, as slavers... the ONLY way for them to "win" is to successfully get the slaves off our ship (alive). Anything additional, such as turning some of us to turn State's Witness, or flip to help capture other slavers is a bonus, but not the main objective.

For us, the hypothetical slavers, we have multiple ways to 'win'. Obviously the best way to win is to somehow escape, but in descending order:
1) Sucessfully escape while the Manty sits there, beret in hand, unable to do anything
2) Successfully escape, after having taken fire from said Manty, some KIA/WIA, but ship and cargo more or less intact.
3) Successfully escape, ship and cargo shot to ****, but us slaver captains are alive, and not compromised by being an active Manty collaborator.
4) There's actually another warship nearby, in stealth, that comes to your aid (think Hellbarde coming to protect 'Sittich' against the Jessica Epps, despite the Sittich being a very obvious fake)
5) Space the slaves, and somehow manage to lie your way through the boarding party.... rather unlikely since Manticore subscribes to the Cherwell modification, any ship with the equipment of a slaver IS a slaver, whether slaves are there or not
6) Self-destruct the ship, take to life boats and proceed to lie and deny absolutely everything, bonus points if you took the steps to try and set conditions that your ship was already unstable and you were broadcasting emergency "help us now, we took damage and our reactor is going critical" prior to the scuttle charges/reactor detonation.
7) Realize all the above are mere fancy, and self-destruct WITHOUT evacuating any of your crew, or yourself. Technically not a win here, but because you denied the win to the Manticorans, you 'won' simply because you forced a no-win for everybody.



Without a little more detail about the interception, it's hard to really make any real calls:
-year this is happening, pre-1900 or are we talking post-Oyster Bay?
-relative masses and ship classes involved (is our slaver ship something like the Hali Sowle, or the Marianne? Is the Manty a Star Knight or a Nike?)
-Was there intelligence that led to this intercept (like the Jessica Epps and Sittich in Zoraster, or was this simply good luck for the Manty?)
-Is there another warship around you can scream for help from 'pirates' and try to use the confusion for something?
-probably the most important question is whether this is actually part of a CONVOY of slavers, multiple ships in concert. if I can use my own energy weapons on another ship to lame it, I might escape at their expense.


Personally, I'd be aiming somewhere between options 2 or 3 and option 6... escape if at all possible, or ensure only reliable crewmen make it off that I can 100% rely upon to lie with me about not being slavers, and that the Manty must be mistaken. But if I see a treecat on even one of the broadcasts to surrender, and it's a post-Oyster Bay timeframe.... I'm going option 7 "true believer" style. I can't guarantee I can go down every beam firing, but that's the closest I'd get.

1. The slavers can't run. There is no way they can outrun a Manty warship. If the Manties hail them and ask to board, there is usually a reason to do so (custom inspection of the ship flying through Manty policed space).
2. See #1. There's no way the slaver can successfully run away.
3. See #1.
4. Since this usually happens in Manty controlled space, the presence of a cloaked warship coming to the aid of the suspected merchant vessel puts that merchi on the 'Inspect IMMEDIATELY!' list, and a close copy of all identifying marks, electronic signatures of the ship, and the warship being fired upon if it doesn't stand down immediately.
5. It would be very hard to successfully lie about that if you're listed as the ship's captain.
6. As you admit, very very unlikely, and heavily depends upon the crew not realizing you would sell them out in a heartbeat.
7. is the only option that really denies the Mantys a win.

Zakharra wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:Unfortunately, unlike Captain Kirk's Kobayashi Maru no-win scenario.... this isn't something played out on a computer program he can reprogram to MAKE a way to win.

For the Manticoran ship intercepting us, as slavers... the ONLY way for them to "win" is to successfully get the slaves off our ship (alive). Anything additional, such as turning some of us to turn State's Witness, or flip to help capture other slavers is a bonus, but not the main objective.

For us, the hypothetical slavers, we have multiple ways to 'win'. Obviously the best way to win is to somehow escape, but in descending order:
1) Sucessfully escape while the Manty sits there, beret in hand, unable to do anything
2) Successfully escape, after having taken fire from said Manty, some KIA/WIA, but ship and cargo more or less intact.
3) Successfully escape, ship and cargo shot to ****, but us slaver captains are alive, and not compromised by being an active Manty collaborator.
4) There's actually another warship nearby, in stealth, that comes to your aid (think Hellbarde coming to protect 'Sittich' against the Jessica Epps, despite the Sittich being a very obvious fake)
5) Space the slaves, and somehow manage to lie your way through the boarding party.... rather unlikely since Manticore subscribes to the Cherwell modification, any ship with the equipment of a slaver IS a slaver, whether slaves are there or not
6) Self-destruct the ship, take to life boats and proceed to lie and deny absolutely everything, bonus points if you took the steps to try and set conditions that your ship was already unstable and you were broadcasting emergency "help us now, we took damage and our reactor is going critical" prior to the scuttle charges/reactor detonation.
7) Realize all the above are mere fancy, and self-destruct WITHOUT evacuating any of your crew, or yourself. Technically not a win here, but because you denied the win to the Manticorans, you 'won' simply because you forced a no-win for everybody.



Without a little more detail about the interception, it's hard to really make any real calls:
-year this is happening, pre-1900 or are we talking post-Oyster Bay?
-relative masses and ship classes involved (is our slaver ship something like the Hali Sowle, or the Marianne? Is the Manty a Star Knight or a Nike?)
-Was there intelligence that led to this intercept (like the Jessica Epps and Sittich in Zoraster, or was this simply good luck for the Manty?)
-Is there another warship around you can scream for help from 'pirates' and try to use the confusion for something?
-probably the most important question is whether this is actually part of a CONVOY of slavers, multiple ships in concert. if I can use my own energy weapons on another ship to lame it, I might escape at their expense.


Personally, I'd be aiming somewhere between options 2 or 3 and option 6... escape if at all possible, or ensure only reliable crewmen make it off that I can 100% rely upon to lie with me about not being slavers, and that the Manty must be mistaken. But if I see a treecat on even one of the broadcasts to surrender, and it's a post-Oyster Bay timeframe.... I'm going option 7 "true believer" style. I can't guarantee I can go down every beam firing, but that's the closest I'd get.

1. The slavers can't run. There is no way they can outrun a Manty warship. If the Manties hail them and ask to board, there is usually a reason to do so (custom inspection of the ship flying through Manty policed space).
2. See #1. There's no way the slaver can successfully run away.
3. See #1.
4. Since this usually happens in Manty controlled space, the presence of a cloaked warship coming to the aid of the suspected merchant vessel puts that merchi on the 'Inspect IMMEDIATELY!' list, and a close copy of all identifying marks, electronic signatures of the ship, and the warship being fired upon if it doesn't stand down immediately.
5. It would be very hard to successfully lie about that if you're listed as the ship's captain.
6. As you admit, very very unlikely, and heavily depends upon the crew not realizing you would sell them out in a heartbeat.
7. is the only option that really denies the Mantys a win.

A slaver can run - if the vector difference between them and the Manty is too great for the Manty to intercept before they enter hyper. If the Manty is going the opposite vector at 1/4 c, it doesn't matter if you can reach out and touch the other ship as you pass, the Manties cannot intercept - and they can't legally just blow you away if you don't act aggressive.

Actually the RMN or any other navy can fire a warning shot, if it is ignored then they can shoot to disable and then legally blow it to kingdom come. I have personally witnessed this in counter narcotics operations by both the USN and USCG.

The procedure is to
1)Order suspect vessel to heave to and prepare to be boarded for what ever reason.
If refused or ignored
2)Fire warning shot across bow
If refused or ignored
3)Fire at suspect vessel with intent to disable vessel by disabling the engine.
If fire is ineffective due to armor etc.
4)Fire shot close aboard without striking vessel. (Close enough to splash the deck)
If fire is ignored
5)Fire to sink vessel.

I have seen both steps 3 and 4 used.