Speculation for Nahrmahn' Little Brainstorm?

EdThomas wrote:1. Poking around with forum searches, the FAQs and Weber's Pearls has not turned up the specific language of the Proscriptions. Is this language available or are we working on the references in the books about what electricity is?

2. Magnetism. We know Safehold has compasses. (too big an assumption?) But we don't know how much is known about magnetic force. What if one of Sandra's associates were to start playing around with magnets and discovered "magnetical" energy? This has nothing to do with the archangels, electric eels or lightning so how would it be considered as a violation of the mysterious proscriptions?

Playing around with magnets around wire, esp. copper, produces electricity which is banned. What generators are is "playing around with magnets with wire," after all. I doubt that playing with magnets alone would have that effect.

I thought this thread was supposed to be looking for ideas that didn't use juice sinse that is off limits.

Don

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n7axw wrote:

EdThomas wrote:1. Poking around with forum searches, the FAQs and Weber's Pearls has not turned up the specific language of the Proscriptions. Is this language available or are we working on the references in the books about what electricity is?

2. Magnetism. We know Safehold has compasses. (too big an assumption?) But we don't know how much is known about magnetic force. What if one of Sandra's associates were to start playing around with magnets and discovered "magnetical" energy? This has nothing to do with the archangels, electric eels or lightning so how would it be considered as a violation of the mysterious proscriptions?

Playing around with magnets around wire, esp. copper, produces electricity which is banned. What generators are is "playing around with magnets with wire," after all. I doubt that playing with magnets alone would have that effect.

I thought this thread was supposed to be looking for ideas that didn't use juice sinse that is off limits.

Don

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Correct, these were the ground rules as stated at the beginning

dobriennm wrote:So considering they already have a system for controlling fire direction (spotters/signalmen/heliographs/rockets), what sort of additional fire control is possible??

Ground rules for Speculation
No electricity of any kind!!!
Only for land-based artillery.

So, any ideas??

And since the author has specified that in 20 years everyone will have a steam engine based economy, it seems unlikely that you would have a form of electrically based communication that would not have been developed a lot further - people have shown themselves to be way too inventive once something new has been shown to them. And developed beyond just communications. So voltage and amperage would go up and quickly be see as "lightning" which is forbidden (the first time you had arcing and sparking).

n7axw wrote:

EdThomas wrote:2. Magnetism. We know Safehold has compasses. (too big an assumption?) But we don't know how much is known about magnetic force. What if one of Sandra's associates were to start playing around with magnets and discovered "magnetical" energy? This has nothing to do with the archangels, electric eels or lightning so how would it be considered as a violation of the mysterious proscriptions?

Playing around with magnets around wire, esp. copper, produces electricity which is banned. What generators are is "playing around with magnets with wire," after all. I doubt that playing with magnets alone would have that effect.

I thought this thread was supposed to be looking for ideas that didn't use juice sinse that is off limits.

Don

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I think I see where this one is going. you run a wire 100 meters. Wrap the wire coil around a compass on one end, and have a stick magnet and a coil of wire on the other. push and pull the magnet and watch the compass move. No battery, not real felt electricity or lightning, but the effects of MAGNITISM is seen. and once that force is seen not to break the prescriptions... the door is slowly allowed to open, especially if Clyntan gets a hold of it and is told that this could be used as a semi fore system using the changing magnet point to make a Morris code of sorts... and then we can increase the range with making a battery... you get were I am going. Pandora's box opens and Safehold is lost to the Angles plan of now tech.

They could use big magnets and cross the ocean between the islands with under water cables, !850's.

So here is a random thought. What if Nahrmahns idea is to build radios that transmit garbage but are powerful enough to get the platforms attention and place the radios remotely in the Army of Gods supplies and turns them on to full broadcast right as they try to use the new rockets against charis only to have the OSB destroy the AOG in one swoop and have the world see the angles are angry at Clyntan and the church.

not likely but that would be fun

mhicks wrote:So here is a random thought. What if Nahrmahns idea is to build radios that transmit garbage but are powerful enough to get the platforms attention and place the radios remotely in the Army of Gods supplies and turns them on to full broadcast right as they try to use the new rockets against charis only to have the OSB destroy the AOG in one swoop and have the world see the angles are angry at Clyntan and the church.

not likely but that would be fun

That's not going to happen. The Inner Circle isn't going to do anything that might risk triggering the OBS and even worse possibly waking up the thing hiding under the Temple.
Besides, if they really wanted to "cheat" and just blow things up, they could just use stealthed remotes to emplace and set off charges in all the powder stores. That'd look suspiciously like Demonic Intervention, however, and is therefore off the table. Alternatively ... Owl can build conventional bombs using more or less current day (real life) technologies, and rig something in a stealthed air lorry or the assault shuttle, as a recon skimmer would have limited capacity, and just drop bombs on things.


What Narhmahn might have thought of could be colored flares/smoke grenades, and assigning meanings to each color - ie, setting off a green one when you've moved up to assault positions and to stop the artillery fire on that sector of the enemy's lines. Red could be to designate artillery targets of opportunity even more efficiently/faster - bypassing the need for at least some of the communication relay steps.
Or whatever color(s) are easiest for them to use and manufacture.

Perhaps rather than looking for novel ways to try to creep around the proscriptions on electricity, we could consider alternate ways of harnessing energy. For example using solar to heat water for steam or even drilling for thermal energy. I doubt this would be what Nahrman had in mind but these sorts of things could prove useful in specific contexts.

Face it, guys. Juice is off the table for now into the foreseeable future. Period....no matter how you come up with it.

Don

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I like the idea of solar collecting because it pushes them more to a light based economy. And Solar refector fields for steam heating for water turbines seem like they would be easier than steam from a burning fuel source - next logical conclusion of impeller tech expansion with the added bonus of getting rid of some of that coal smoke that is bugging Howsmyn - in some locations especially for the church which doesn't have the math understanding for complex engineering of engines. PLUS BONUS starts the development of better refracting tech and materials science needed later for solar panels and space flight.

dobriennm wrote:
And since the author has specified that in 20 years everyone will have a steam engine based economy, it seems unlikely that you would have a form of electrically based communication that would not have been developed a lot further - people have shown themselves to be way too inventive once something new has been shown to them. And developed beyond just communications. So voltage and amperage would go up and quickly be see as "lightning" which is forbidden (the first time you had arcing and sparking).

I can see the steam engine based economy for manufacturing, but I am having a hard time seeing how it is going to help the transportation industry - the signaling and control functions of all railroads quickly made use of electricity to detect the presence of trains in blocks.

Even with full double tracking, you need signal blocks to be sure that it is safe to proceed. Without that, you cannot run very many trains, nor very frequently. And what are you going to do to report switch settings?

Hildum wrote:

dobriennm wrote:
And since the author has specified that in 20 years everyone will have a steam engine based economy, it seems unlikely that you would have a form of electrically based communication that would not have been developed a lot further - people have shown themselves to be way too inventive once something new has been shown to them. And developed beyond just communications. So voltage and amperage would go up and quickly be see as "lightning" which is forbidden (the first time you had arcing and sparking).

I can see the steam engine based economy for manufacturing, but I am having a hard time seeing how it is going to help the transportation industry - the signaling and control functions of all railroads quickly made use of electricity to detect the presence of trains in blocks.

Even with full double tracking, you need signal blocks to be sure that it is safe to proceed. Without that, you cannot run very many trains, nor very frequently. And what are you going to do to report switch settings?

Dunno the answers to these questions... but I do know that there was an extensive railroad industry prior to the widespread use of electricity. So they must have figured it out somehow.

Don

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