Pulsers, bullets, plasma, energy weapons...

I wonder which Honorverse weapon is better for home security and would be legal for civilians to purchase?

I'm really thinking that home security in the Honorverse could literally be a semi-automated process. At the utterance of a word or certain motion of the hand, every biologic scan within a dwelling or grounds that isn't registered could be rendered unconscious.

But a Derringer is a very small short double barreled two shot pistol, while a Colt 45 M1911A1 which she had is very different (as Sabre said). A much bigger and meaner weapon. Definitely not a Derringer - nor a Smith & Wesson.

Daryl wrote:...a Colt 45 M1911A1 which she had is very different (as Sabre said). A much bigger and meaner weapon. ...

FWIW, "Derringer" covers a wide range of short-barreled self-defense handguns.

The Remington Double Derringer in .45 Long Colt, I linked earlier, is very close ballistically to .45 ACP and in some commercially available loadings is more powerful than .45 ACP using the same or similar bullet. A 1911A is unarguably bigger, but "meaner" is definitely dependent on the specific "Derringer" it is being compared to, and the most common, modern, "Derringer" is the Remington Double Derringer. Often in .45 Long Colt, sometimes in .357 Magnum/.38 Special -- and sometimes in .45 ACP! In the latter case, it is directly comparable to the 1911A1.

Early "Derringer" muzzle loaders like those marketed by John Deringer and used to assassinate Lincoln are definitely a hundred years or so less developed than the Remington Double or other modern smokeless powder derringers, let alone the 1911A1.

Daryl wrote:But a Derringer is a very small short double barreled two shot pistol, while a Colt 45 M1911A1 which she had is very different (as Sabre said). A much bigger and meaner weapon. Definitely not a Derringer - nor a Smith & Wesson.

Does anyone understand my point? Anyone? Anyone at all? Anybody?

I feel like Stewie Griffin of Family Guy fame...

"My diaper is overflowing with juicy goodness, anyone wanna change me? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone at all? Anybody?"

Well, let me try to change this diaper one last time...

Hmm, let's see now...

A Derringer was usually a one shot pistol. A .45 is not. A Derringer hardly has any stopping power. A .45 will blow your head clean off at Derringer ranges. A Derringer sounds like a little pop gun, even in a confined space. A .45 sounds like a cannon. A Derringer became the quintessential woman's weapon. The average woman may not be able to fire a .45. Certainly not with one hand - some men probably can't either.

Same page up to this point? Ok...

A Derringer was popular with women because...

1. It was easy to fire with one hand.

2. Lightweight.

3. It could easily be concealed. In a purse w/o much weight. Or, by a lady or a lady of the night, concealed under her garter belt or stockings. Garter belt concealment was the method highly dramatized by Hollywood. That method of concealment worked so well because when a woman of the night is wearing her "uniform" - low cut, quite revealing blouse, a very revealing slit skirt, stockings and high heels, it occurs to an idiot that she is very vulnerable. Virtually naked. That she has no weapon. Where can she hide it, being "naked" to defend herself? Not knowing that she wears "stockings" held up by a garter belt, instead of "hose". It was named a "garter belt" but just as well may have been referred to as a "guard her" belt.

When a drunken b*stard tries to have his way with a seemingly "naked" woman, he is shocked shitless when she pulls a weapon out of thin air. Thin air because most men will never know what shot them, let alone where it came from.

That's the "shock value" of a Derringer. Most women cannot conceal a .45 under her skirt, unless she wants to appear to be a man wielding a weapon that's "happy to see you." A .45 produces a bulge even on a man's person.

However, if, IF any weapon is produced by a "naked woman" it would have the same "shock value" as any Derringer. Be it an actual Derringer, a .22, a .38, a .45, or a .357. A phucking shotgun, gatling gun, rail gun or a bazooka wouldn't cause any more shock than a Derringer if you hear it kill you before you see it. As happens in the case of most Derringers. As happened with that "dildo" Warnecke.

Concealment and shock value is the comparison I was after. NOT grain or weapon size. Ok ok?

Wiki states that a .45 is produced as a Derringer. Honor's .45 wasn't a Derringer, but it was similarly concealed and produced from a "naked" body.

And before anyone posts "but Honor wasn't naked." As far as Warnecke was concerned, after she was swept for power signatures that would reveal a hidden pulser, Warnicke considered her to be "naked" of any weapon. Same as any idiot in the "Roaring 20's."

We good now?

FYI:

The classic Remington design remained popular even with the advent of smaller, higher-powered cartridges, made possible by the use of smokeless powder, rather than the black powder used in the 19th century and before. A Remington-pattern derringer in .38 Special is still smaller than the most compact .25 ACP semiautomatic, and provides superior terminal ballistic performance to the .25 ACP. While the classic Remington design is a single-action, manufacturers have also made double-action derringers, including some four-shot models, with the barrels stacked in a 2 × 2 block. The COP 357 Derringer provided four shots of .357 Magnum in a package not much larger than a .25 ACP automatic, and was significantly more compact than a similar revolver. The COP derringer was invented by Robert Hillberg and closely resembled his earlier work on insurgency weapons.[6]
A related design, often grouped with derringers since it fits no other standard classification, is the Semmerling pistol.[7] It is a five-shot, .45 ACP pistol with a manual repeater: the barrel mechanism is manually pulled forward to eject the fired round, then pushed back to chamber the next round. These pistols were originally built for the United States Army, and the few available on the civilian market are highly sought after due to their unique combination of high power, large capacity, and tiny size. Another military pistol that is truly a derringer design is the FP-45 Liberator, a .45 ACP insurgency weapon dropped behind Axis lines in World War II.
The Remington derringer design is still being manufactured; Bond Arms, Cobra Arms and American Derringer all manufacture the over/under derringer in a variety of calibers from .22 long rifle to .45 Long Colt. The current production of derringers are used by Cowboy Action Shooting reenactors as well as a concealed-carry weapon. It is the smallest handgun that is capable of handling the largest ammunition. Some favor the derringer as a concealed carry weapon because of its size as well as the swiftness of putting it into action. Critics believe it is not an adequate weapon for self-defense since the derringer possesses only a two-shot capacity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derringer

cthia wrote:...A Derringer hardly has any stopping power. A .45 will blow your head clean off at Derringer ranges. ...

A Derringer in .45 Long Colt will also "blow your head clean off" at "derringer ranges."

You persist in classing all derringers by the power/performance of the original black powder muzzle loaders or smaller caliber cartridge versions. The classic Remington Double Derringer over/under design is far from the "popgun" you insist all derringers to be.

I do understand your point that Honor used her 1911A1 as a derringer is normally used, but other than limited capacity, a derringer would have been as effective in that situation.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:...A Derringer hardly has any stopping power. A .45 will blow your head clean off at Derringer ranges. ...

A Derringer in .45 Long Colt will also "blow your head clean off" at "derringer ranges."

You persist in classing all derringers by the power/performance of the original black powder muzzle loaders or smaller caliber cartridge versions. The classic Remington Double Derringer over/under design is far from the "popgun" you insist all derringers to be.

I do understand your point that Honor used her 1911A1 as a derringer is normally used, but other than limited capacity, a derringer would have been as effective in that situation.

Ah, some progress. But you are still missing the main point...

First, let's clean the record. I already acknowledged, even linked wiki's article discussing the many derringer versions...

However...

You MUST maintain size and weight and discharge ease for a derringer to remain ideal for a woman to conceal and carry - OR you are defeating the "true" purpose of derringers in a woman's eye. A woman is concealing this thing in her garter or stocking. Introducing too much bulk or weight under her skirt isn't going to be popular. Nor any fear from firing a bigger round.

Nor can a longer barreled version be easily held, out of normal view of the public, in a woman's smaller hands when she is walking in a darkened garage or getting gas in a seedy area of town.

Sure, there are various designs that do have more stopping power, even with longer barrels and a little larger size and weight - again, defeating the purpose in a woman's eyes. It's good to know they have these longer barreled and more powerful designs. They may even interest some men. And perhaps even some women. But not the average woman, a petite woman, or a woman planning to conceal it under her garter!

It would be akin to a man (muscular density to gun weight) tying a .38 to his thigh and dancing, socializing and walking comfortably. And a woman is on heels and scantily dressed.

And remember, many women are afraid of firing a .22. You expect her to be comfortable firing a .45 round with its accompanying recoil with one hand at kissing range? Think that'll be popular with women?

My original post was intended for Honorverse tech to develop a hand gun in the original Derringer size, perhaps even lighter weight, with as small or smaller round than a .22, with multiple shots and with NO MORE ADDED RECOIL, with perhaps an engineered round to explode on contact. As discussed in a few posts.

OR, an incredibly lightweight, non-chemically powered weapon as small as the smallest Derringer and as light as a toy gun, with stopping power and ease of control. That even a 9-yr-old is comfortable firing.

"Boom! I told you to leave my mom alone, you jerk!"

Recoil is VxM. The faster the round, the more recoil. The heaver the round, the more recoil. The lighter the gun, the more you feel it.

This is why little pistols firing powerful rounds are not a lot of fun.

This one won't need a garter belt?

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2016/03/25/ideal-conceal-smartphone-derringer-gun-kjellberg.html

jchilds wrote:This one won't need a garter belt?

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2016/03/25/ideal-conceal-smartphone-derringer-gun-kjellberg.html

Nice design. But will it lead to Blacks being shot for carrying cellphones?

Good thing staples come in various grain sizes as well. When extended, it looks like one powerful frickin' staple gun.

.

kzt wrote:Recoil is VxM. The faster the round, the more recoil. The heaver the round, the more recoil. The lighter the gun, the more you feel it.

This is why little pistols firing powerful rounds are not a lot of fun.

Which is one of two reasons why the average Lady Derringer is apt to opt for a .22 derringer.

The average woman doesn't plan to use a derringer to kill the b*astard, she just plans to be able to get away to live another day.

Then have the police follow his bleeding arse and pick him up in the emergency room.

He's the one bleeding and wide-eyed from "shell shock."