"downrange countermissiles"

if it keeps the ship alive to fight another day then I would expect the answer to be yes.

it is the same argument you can make with decoys, not strictly necessary and not cheap, but if it improves the chances are ship and more importantly crew coming home then they will probably be used.

Except decoys against FTL RD's and Apollo is pointless other than decoys inside a wedge.

"Downrange countermissiles" ... isn't that what a forward-deployed LAC screen is for?

Mind, I could see, potentially, a specialized LAC design that gives up most, if not all, offensive armament for deeper CM magazines and enhanced EW abilities and the capability to FTL-link to a next-gen Keyhole platform to benefit from a SD's computers and tac department.
Let this design keep a dozen or two Vipers, just in case other LACs come after it, but fill the rest of it up with various anti-missile systems.

Kytheros wrote:"Downrange countermissiles" ... isn't that what a forward-deployed LAC screen is for?

Mind, I could see, potentially, a specialized LAC design that gives up most, if not all, offensive armament for deeper CM magazines and enhanced EW abilities and the capability to FTL-link to a next-gen Keyhole platform to benefit from a SD's computers and tac department.
Let this design keep a dozen or two Vipers, just in case other LACs come after it, but fill the rest of it up with various anti-missile systems.

Isn't one of the LAC missiles able to function as a missile defence bird and a ship killer in its own right?

George J. Smith wrote:

Kytheros wrote:"Downrange countermissiles" ... isn't that what a forward-deployed LAC screen is for?

Mind, I could see, potentially, a specialized LAC design that gives up most, if not all, offensive armament for deeper CM magazines and enhanced EW abilities and the capability to FTL-link to a next-gen Keyhole platform to benefit from a SD's computers and tac department.
Let this design keep a dozen or two Vipers, just in case other LACs come after it, but fill the rest of it up with various anti-missile systems.

Isn't one of the LAC missiles able to function as a missile defence bird and a ship killer in its own right?

No, the Viper is an anti-LAC missile - basically a single-rod laserhead grafted onto a countermissile. It could take out destroyers or even the odd cruiser. But it would be a process known as death by a thousand cuts. The Viper is intended to be used as a countermissile as well.

Although any missile(even the big MK25-E) can be used as a countermissile. They're just not as effective or cheap as purpose-built CMs.

The vipers are used as CM's. Although I suspect that LAC's in the wall screening role are probably loaded with mostly CM's instead of vipers because the CM would be cheaper.

At All Costs: wrote: "You were right, Ma'am," deCastro said. "They do use those things for counter-missiles, too."
"Made sense," Bellefeuille said almost absently, watching her plot. "The signatures Admiral Beach recorded at Gaston made it pretty clear they were basically the same missile body and drive package, after all."

munroburton wrote:

George J. Smith wrote:Isn't one of the LAC missiles able to function as a missile defence bird and a ship killer in its own right?

No, the Viper is an anti-LAC missile - basically a single-rod laserhead grafted onto a countermissile. It could take out destroyers or even the odd cruiser. But it would be a process known as death by a thousand cuts. The Viper is intended to be used as a countermissile as well.

Although any missile(even the big MK25-E) can be used as a countermissile. They're just not as effective or cheap as purpose-built CMs.

A LAC is a ship, the viper is an anti LAC missile that can be used as a counter-missile, therefore my premise stands.

George J. Smith wrote:A LAC is a ship, the viper is an anti LAC missile that can be used as a counter-missile, therefore my premise stands.

Anti-ship or Shipkiller typically refers to missiles intended for use against full on hyper-capable warships. LACs are typically exclusively referred to as LACs, not ships. It's bit like the RL difference between a "boat" and a "ship" in naval terminology ... admittedly, I'm not entirely sure on exactly what all the distinctions are offhand, but I do know they're important. I think it's something like boats are purely local vessels, and ships aren't, but I know that there's more to it.

The Viper is a split purpose Anti-LAC/Countermissile and heavily specialized for that and much more of a fire-and-forget useage, though that may only be for the anti-LAC role.
The Viper is very much not what is meant when reference to what is usually known as a shipkiller missile is made by most people.



The point, at any rate, is not to have your forward anti-missile LAC specialists taking much in the way of offensive firepower - just enough to deter another LAC screen, and using the remaining volume for pure defensive systems. If you're worried about a destroyer or light cruiser screen getting too close ... send a out some Ferrets/analogues/successors, and they can use the latest version of the LAC-launched shipkiller.
Besides ... if there's screen of anti-missile LACs up big enough to be a worthwhile target for a destroyer division or more (ie, more than a Viper salvo or two from the LAC screen could be reasonably expected to see off), both sides are expecting and planning for a major fleet action, missile storms and all, and so they're probably light-minutes away.

It's not very hard for an intelligent opponent to avoid a forward deployed LAC screen. If the missiles don't run the direct path the LACs will be sitting there watching the missiles scream by at 5+ million km range.

kzt wrote:It's not very hard for an intelligent opponent to avoid a forward deployed LAC screen. If the missiles don't run the direct path the LACs will be sitting there watching the missiles scream by at 5+ million km range.

That applies to pretty much any platform deployed particularly far forwards. If their stealth is good enough, you might be able to take advantage of surprise on the initial salvos, at least, until, the enemy always uses nonstandard approach pathing.

But, any course deviations would eat (some) time off the missile runtimes. Maybe that means they wind up starting their final drive a little sooner or have a slightly longer ballistic segment.


Still, a LAC screen deployed a few light seconds further out from the primary formation and normal screening elements would be usually workable. And that's really as far forwards as you can practically attain, unless you're going to go all the way forwards to shoot the missiles just shortly after they're launched, which is asking to get shot at and need to fight other LACs.
Maybe it's a LAC screen escorting next-gen decoys to split up or draw in missile salvos.