Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD

PeterZ wrote:

n7axw wrote:
As I understand it, while all magic requires someone gifted to set up the spells, it can be set for useage by the non-gifted. In that event, it is hard to see why crystals set up as bombs couldn't be set up with non-magical trigguring mechanisms.

As for how expensive it might be, cost is set up by supply and demand. It us possible that the availability of magisters to set up the spells could drive up the cost of the crystals, especially if they were needed in large numbers.

Don

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Not quite. Both Dagger Stones and the demolition charge spells required Gifted users to utilize. That implies that some limits of either complexity of the spell or power captured by a spell requires the Gift. Would arming a powerful bomb require a greater level of Gift than dragon riders usually possess? Perhaps.

Firing artillery would have the same limitations and we would add aiming the field piece to arming the shell/crystal. Not to mention actually propelling the shell/crystal a suitable distance. Consider the reaction to Jathmar's description of the pressures his small rifle cartridge generated at the firing range. That sort of pressure or motive force was unheard of. Heck, Arcanans use spell aided crossbows to launch small arms missiles. What would they do for large missiles?

I suspect that capturing the forces Gadriel described just before she shot the rifle is no mean feat for magisters. Likely a feat that would require a seriously gifted magister to create and some high level of Gift to event fire properly.

PeterZ wrote:
Not quite. Both Dagger Stones and the demolition charge spells required Gifted users to utilize. That implies that some limits of either complexity of the spell or power captured by a spell requires the Gift. Would arming a powerful bomb require a greater level of Gift than dragon riders usually possess? Perhaps.

Firing artillery would have the same limitations and we would add aiming the field piece to arming the shell/crystal. Not to mention actually propelling the shell/crystal a suitable distance. Consider the reaction to Jathmar's description of the pressures his small rifle cartridge generated at the firing range. That sort of pressure or motive force was unheard of. Heck, Arcanans use spell aided crossbows to launch small arms missiles. What would they do for large missiles?

I suspect that capturing the forces Gadriel described just before she shot the rifle is no mean feat for magisters. Likely a feat that would require a seriously gifted magister to create and some high level of Gift to event fire properly.

n7axw wrote:

Astelon wrote:It is such an obvious tactic that there must be some reason they don't use it. Problems with activating the spell properly (outside of a gifted person's control) may be one reason. Their crystal (sarkolis?) may be to expensive to throw away as artillery and bombs for this use could also prevent it. Although they have shown so much of it (albeit only for reusable purposes) that I am not sure it could be prohibitively expensive.

As I understand it, while all magic requires someone gifted to set up the spells, it can be set for useage by the non-gifted. In that event, it is hard to see why crystals set up as bombs couldn't be set up with non-magical trigguring mechanisms.

As for how expensive it might be, cost is set up by supply and demand. It us possible that the availability of magisters to set up the spells could drive up the cost of the crystals, especially if they were needed in large numbers.

Don

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brnicholas wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
Not quite. Both Dagger Stones and the demolition charge spells required Gifted users to utilize. That implies that some limits of either complexity of the spell or power captured by a spell requires the Gift. Would arming a powerful bomb require a greater level of Gift than dragon riders usually possess? Perhaps.

Firing artillery would have the same limitations and we would add aiming the field piece to arming the shell/crystal. Not to mention actually propelling the shell/crystal a suitable distance. Consider the reaction to Jathmar's description of the pressures his small rifle cartridge generated at the firing range. That sort of pressure or motive force was unheard of. Heck, Arcanans use spell aided crossbows to launch small arms missiles. What would they do for large missiles?

I suspect that capturing the forces Gadriel described just before she shot the rifle is no mean feat for magisters. Likely a feat that would require a seriously gifted magister to create and some high level of Gift to event fire properly.

Your question about larger missiles/projectiles is an interesting one. I tend to see it from a different angle.

If the Arcanans can make a warhead they appear to have all the other pieces for a cruise missile. The propulsion system can come from the slider cars. The spells for seeing where it is from recon crystals. The ability to make sense of the images from the image analysis spellware that has been mentioned in text. The programing for following a route from the PCs.

If they can make a warhead. They ought to be able to connect several crystals to a piece of wood and have it fly itself, possibly including right through portals, to where they want it to go boom.

Nicholas

Keith_w wrote:
They ought to be able to connect several crystals to a piece of wood and have it fly itself, possibly including right through portals, to where they want it to go boom.

justdave wrote:

Keith_w wrote:
They ought to be able to connect several crystals to a piece of wood and have it fly itself, possibly including right through portals, to where they want it to go boom.

interesting item from MWM on new Baen interview where he 'speculates' that Arcana 'might' figure out that while spells can't penetrate a portal the stone itself could pass thru and then activate, "tum de tum"

Keith_w wrote:

brnicholas wrote:Your question about larger missiles/projectiles is an interesting one. I tend to see it from a different angle.

If the Arcanans can make a warhead they appear to have all the other pieces for a cruise missile. The propulsion system can come from the slider cars. The spells for seeing where it is from recon crystals. The ability to make sense of the images from the image analysis spellware that has been mentioned in text. The programing for following a route from the PCs.

If they can make a warhead. They ought to be able to connect several crystals to a piece of wood and have it fly itself, possibly including right through portals, to where they want it to go boom.

Nicholas

I don't see that. The sliders appear to need a guideway and they don't cross portals both of which would appear to limit their utility in the situation we are discussing.

"it wasn't at all uncommon to see two lines of slider cars charging into a portal on exactly opposite headings—one from the east and the other from the west—at the exact same moment on what appeared to be exactly the same track. No matter how carefully it had all been explained before a man saw it for the first time with his own eyes, he knew those two sliders had to be colliding in the universe on the other side of that portal. But, of course, they weren't. Viewed from the side in that other universe, both sliders were exploding out of the same space simultaneously . . . but headed in exactly opposite directions."

brnicholas wrote:As for sliders not crossing portals. Would you please post the text evidence for that.

I am not denying it, I still haven't been able to read RTH so for all I know it may say that and if it does that would trump earlier works. But until you post text I must go with the evidence I have seen and Chapter 1 of Hell's Gate, when discussing portal physics, says:

"it wasn't at all uncommon to see two lines of slider cars charging into a portal on exactly opposite headings—one from the east and the other from the west—at the exact same moment on what appeared to be exactly the same track. No matter how carefully it had all been explained before a man saw it for the first time with his own eyes, he knew those two sliders had to be colliding in the universe on the other side of that portal. But, of course, they weren't. Viewed from the side in that other universe, both sliders were exploding out of the same space simultaneously . . . but headed in exactly opposite directions."

That text seems quite clear that sliders can cross portals.

Nicholas

Road to Hell: Ch 18 wrote:Of course, motics can’t cross a portal threshold any better than a slider can, and that’s going to be an ongoing problem for their owners. You’ve seen the elaborate arrangements the slider stations have for transferring passengers between coaches at a portal, but how does the owner of a private motic manage that?” He shook his head.
“I think they’ll manage it in the end,” Gadrial said confidently. “There’s been some fundamental research into purely mechanical ways of getting entire sliders across thresholds, Jas. If we can make that work, we can scale it down for motics.