Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD

I agree with Mil-Tech Bard on this one. With the Terenthian security services only having had effective control of the palace for 6 months there is no way they could truly secure it.

Securing a building of that size inside a major city is a massive task requiring extensive knowledge that takes a long time to develop. Not only does the building need to be known in great detail, but so do the people using it, and the people living around it, and the people and goods moving through the area. All of these will change on a seasonal basis so you need several years experience to know what is normal at this time of year. Issues like, do the men who guard the access points to the various maintenance areas know the names, faces and schedules of the people who have business being there matter.

Terenthian protection services could have hired lots of agents. But it would take years for the analyises responsible for sorting the needles which indicate plots out of the fields of straw bales that those agents are going to generate to know what the fields look like normally. In sum, I agree with Mil-Tech, "Enemy agents and explosives getting into and out of said palace is less an "intelligence failure" than an unavoidable risk."

Nicholas

brnicholas wrote:I agree with Mil-Tech Bard on this one. With the Terenthian security services only having had effective control of the palace for 6 months there is no way they could truly secure it.

Securing a building of that size inside a major city is a massive task requiring extensive knowledge that takes a long time to develop. Not only does the building need to be known in great detail, but so do the people using it, and the people living around it, and the people and goods moving through the area. All of these will change on a seasonal basis so you need several years experience to know what is normal at this time of year. Issues like, do the men who guard the access points to the various maintenance areas know the names, faces and schedules of the people who have business being there matter.

Terenthian protection services could have hired lots of agents. But it would take years for the analyises responsible for sorting the needles which indicate plots out of the fields of straw bales that those agents are going to generate to know what the fields look like normally. In sum, I agree with Mil-Tech, "Enemy agents and explosives getting into and out of said palace is less an "intelligence failure" than an unavoidable risk."

Nicholas

I disagree with both of you, and since neither of our sides seems able to persuade the other, we will just have to continue to disagree.

Something that might merit a little more discussion are those Uromathian troops that are not showing up to be shipped out to the war. Am I the only one wondering if Chava might not be diverting these missing troops to form a force to march on Tajvana for a coup de main?

Don

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First a note on Arcanan delayed activations spells. The existence of grenades seems to indicate that it is possible to do, but Arcana is still accepting the deaths of Gifted engineers to do demo work (the one that blew the hole on Fort Salby's walls died from falling debris). That indicates they can't do it in those cases. It might be a limitation on the amount of energy to be released, or maybe a control issue, but in either case it looks as if Arcana doesn't have a concept for bombs. Whether they can develop it is another matter, but it might not even be possible for their technology.

The missing Uromathian forces is an interesting case. It may just be a simple logistics screw up (there are reasons Uromathia has lost its wars against Ternathia), or it may be more sinister.

Astelon wrote:First a note on Arcanan delayed activations spells. The existence of grenades seems to indicate that it is possible to do, but Arcana is still accepting the deaths of Gifted engineers to do demo work (the one that blew the hole on Fort Salby's walls died from falling debris). That indicates they can't do it in those cases. It might be a limitation on the amount of energy to be released, or maybe a control issue, but in either case it looks as if Arcana doesn't have a concept for bombs. Whether they can develop it is another matter, but it might not even be possible for their technology.

The missing Uromathian forces is an interesting case. It may just be a simple logistics screw up (there are reasons Uromathia has lost its wars against Ternathia), or it may be more sinister.

I've wondered the same thing about the spells. Refering back to the earlier discussion, at minimum they would have to develop a non magical means for delivering the spell through the portal. I doubt that the Sharonians would allow them to get close enough to use a catapult or an arblast.

If the delayed action spell is possible and if they can figure out how to deliver it, they do have some very powerful options. A spell is mentioned in RTH that was loosed by an army that was losing a battle that wiped both armies for a casualty total of 110,000 men.

Don

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n7axw wrote:Something that might merit a little more discussion are those Uromathian troops that are not showing up to be shipped out to the war. Am I the only one wondering if Chava might not be diverting these missing troops to form a force to march on Tajvana for a coup de main?

Don

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I think that was a screw-up. If Chava had intended to hold back troops to do a coup, I don't think he would have said that they were going and then changed his mind without telling anyone, thus raising suspicions about his motives.

Keith_w wrote:

n7axw wrote:Something that might merit a little more discussion are those Uromathian troops that are not showing up to be shipped out to the war. Am I the only one wondering if Chava might not be diverting these missing troops to form a force to march on Tajvana for a coup de main?

Don

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I think that was a screw-up. If Chava had intended to hold back troops to do a coup, I don't think he would have said that they were going and then changed his mind without telling anyone, thus raising suspicions about his motives.

It is presented as a screw-up anyway. But, iirc, it happened more than once which is what led me to raise the question. The tension between Chava and the Caliraths has been a constant theme and this would make for an interesting twist of plot.

Don

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I actually don't think it was a screw up. The only POVs we have seen reactions to non-arrivals have been front line logistics personnel. We haven't seen Imperial Intelligence's reactions to the shift in forces. We haven't seen any shifts in non-Ternatihan units.

When things clarify in the next book, we will see just how much of an advantage Chava has squeezed out. I suspect it will not e nearly enough to accomplish his will.

PeterZ wrote:I actually don't think it was a screw up. The only POVs we have seen reactions to non-arrivals have been front line logistics personnel. We haven't seen Imperial Intelligence's reactions to the shift in forces. We haven't seen any shifts in non-Ternatihan units.

When things clarify in the next book, we will see just how much of an advantage Chava has squeezed out. I suspect it will not e nearly enough to accomplish his will.

Yeah, but it does have the makings of a thriller. Imagine Andrin having to get out of Tajvana before Chava's troops get there or having the Ternathian army arrive in the nick of time to foil the scheme...

Don

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n7axw wrote:
Yeah, but it does have the makings of a thriller. Imagine Andrin having to get out of Tajvana before Chava's troops get there or having the Ternathian army arrive in the nick of time to foil the scheme...

Don

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I would rather the cavalry be Einathian marines called in by King Juni, Shurkalan dragoons redirected by a canny commander who recognized the Uromathian troop deployments and of course the combined Septs of Arpathia come to pay their respects to their new Emperor.