Prediction: Spider Drive=Grav Lance

Probably the only link between the grav lance and the spider drive is that Red Sonja will be looking at her notes on one and have a eureka moment about the other.

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shanan and sonja will togeather have a eureka moment....

A modification of the grav lance can find a spider drive ship at a huge range, like 5 light minutes.

Let me add that I have an abysmal track record of predicting what DW does.

Annachie wrote:Probably the only link between the grav lance and the spider drive is that Red Sonja will be looking at her notes on one and have a eureka moment about the other.

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Jonathan_S wrote:

Duckk wrote:The grav lance is as much an engineering modification to the impeller drive as it is a weapon system. The grav lance reshapes the wedge such that it can project a spike of gravitic energy towards a target. In effect, it is a contact nuke missile's sidewall penetrator writ large. Since it requires a wedge, a spider drive ship cannot generate it.

True, for the lance we're familiar with. But we don't know the power levels involved in the grav tractor spike the spider uses to grab the Alpha wall. It's not totally inconceivable that it's strong enough to disrupt a sidewall.

But I doubt they'd bother since you have to get so close. With a near invisible ship you could accomplish the same thing by sneaking around to get a down the thoat shot and using energy torps; why kill a sidewall when you can simple go where it isn't a problem.

Unfortunately the Grand alliance ships all have bow & stern-walls! So some genius will need to figure out how to get a Grav lance running in a spider drive ship.

pnakasone wrote:

GabrialSagan wrote:For preventing another attack like Oyster Bay, not long at all. The tricky part comes from when spider drive ships are deployed in tandem with conventional warships. The defenders would go after the enemies they can see while the enemies they can't slip in close and take out their targets.

It also tricky for the spider drive ships as they would not last long against conventional warships if noticed. Of course killing a SD for the cost of a spider drive ship could be considered a good trade.

True if it's one of the original scout class ships. But aren't the current ones under construction by the Alignment SD Size? As a grav lance is currently quite a space hog I doubt it could be shoe horned into the scout class ships without a lot of Manty type miniaturization.

Still it could be an option if you could get a spider drive wall of battle undetected into range of a normal wedge wall without been detected, I'm sure the salamander could arrange it. You just need to get them looking the wrong way.

darrell wrote:shanan and sonja will togeather have a eureka moment....

A modification of the grav lance can find a spider drive ship at a huge range, like 5 light minutes.

Let me add that I have an abysmal track record of predicting what DW does.

NO! Say it ain't so!

Here is my prediction:

Since Spiders require triple skegs, Manticore finagles the Medusans' into "sniffing" them out. After all, Medusans are tripedal and octal...

Tyrant of Null wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:But we don't know the power levels involved in the grav tractor spike the spider uses to grab the Alpha wall. It's not totally inconceivable that it's strong enough to disrupt a sidewall.

But I doubt they'd bother since you have to get so close. With a near invisible ship you could accomplish the same thing by sneaking around to get a down the thoat shot and using energy torps; why kill a sidewall when you can simple go where it isn't a problem.

Unfortunately the Grand alliance ships all have bow & stern-walls! So some genius will need to figure out how to get a Grav lance running in a spider drive ship.

They do mount bow and stern walls, but those don't eliminate the risk of a down the throat, or up the kilt, energy torp shot from a ship you can't see.
You can only use the full wall on one aspect at a time; so even sitting at "anchor" one opening or the other is vulnerable. And you can't have accelerate at all with a full wall up; so ambushing a ship underway means it is vulnerable.

Ah, but what of the [buckler] wall? That can be used on both ends at once, and without interfering with acceleration. Against a single target that you can see it is protection against energy range attacks; because you can hold it between you and the enemy. But it's small; barely twice the diameter of the hull; and its sitting in a huge opening; more like 800x the diameter of the hull (bow) or 200x (stern). Assume it has the same standoff from the hull as the regular sidewalls and you can do the math and realize what a small number of angles it protects against fire from.

(Especially from enemies above or below you; the normal sidewalls create a tunnel effect for enemies off to you left or right which trims down the vulnerable angles a bit)

So against an enemy you can't see it's not noticeably harder for them to have climbed or dived enough to angle etorp shots right down your throat, past the edge of your buckler, that it would have been to achieve a dead on down the throat position instead. So still no real need to lance sidewalls. IMHO

darrell wrote:shanan and sonja will togeather have a eureka moment....

A modification of the grav lance can find a spider drive ship at a huge range, like 5 light minutes.

Let me add that I have an abysmal track record of predicting what DW does.

Annachie wrote:Probably the only link between the grav lance and the spider drive is that Red Sonja will be looking at her notes on one and have a eureka moment about the other.

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It would be a nice little narrative quirk to have something right from the very first novel shaping the events of the final few. It would make a sort to sense for something like this.

It has been explicitly stated that a Spiders Legs do not create a detectable gravity ripple like a grav pulse comm, but I would bet that the Legs spikes could create a distortion in a artificial field. Modern military's can track submerged submarines by detecting the warp in the earths magnetic field that a huge lump of metal can create. Given the Honorverses state of technology, why not create your own field that can be monitored more easily.

What if the same "science" or tech that is used to create a grav lance field is adapted or reverse engineered to create a big artificial field, not focused enough to actually do anything but enough to alter how normal space behaves. The node carrier (either a ship or a drone) would probably be paralyzed when this setup is active but it would lay down something like a vast 3D rubber sheet or web. Then when a Spider Drive passes through it creates a ripple or distorts the field enough that they can be both detected and located.

This method could be used as a patrol tactic, with either a bigger ship or a modified drone (something with powerful nodes anyway) sitting in the center of the field (or a linked network of emitters), with smaller ships arranged around them to home in on anything detected.

Duckk wrote:The grav lance is as much an engineering modification to the impeller drive as it is a weapon system. The grav lance reshapes the wedge such that it can project a spike of gravitic energy towards a target. In effect, it is a contact nuke missile's sidewall penetrator writ large. Since it requires a wedge, a spider drive ship cannot generate it.

Unless you also mount a conventional drive on the same ship.

Jonathan_S wrote:Ah, but what of the bucket wall?

(Bolding mine)
I think you might be referring to the Buckler Wall.
While the only people we know use Bucklers are the Manticoran Alliance, it would be an excellent fore/aft defense for the Spider Drive ship since it doesn't seem to need a Wedge to connect to.
In fact, if the shape could be changed, it would provide pretty good broadside shields for any MAligN vessel since the Spider Legs would provide at least some protection in their own right.

Michael Everett wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Ah, but what of the bucket wall?

(Bolding mine)
I think you might be referring to the Buckler Wall.
While the only people we know use Bucklers are the Manticoran Alliance, it would be an excellent fore/aft defense for the Spider Drive ship since it doesn't seem to need a Wedge to connect to.
In fact, if the shape could be changed, it would provide pretty good broadside shields for any MAligN vessel since the Spider Legs would provide at least some protection in their own right.

First, yes "buckler". Not sure if that was a typo or autocorrect (or possibly both).

Second, we've wondered here before if it really can be operating without a wedge up; or if it just binds loosely with it. (Also been speculation about whether you could use a buckler with sails). Guess we'll have to see a) if it can work without an active wedge, and b) if the MAlign copy it.

Michael Everett wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Ah, but what of the bucket wall?

(Bolding mine)
I think you might be referring to the Buckler Wall.
While the only people we know use Bucklers are the Manticoran Alliance, it would be an excellent fore/aft defense for the Spider Drive ship since it doesn't seem to need a Wedge to connect to.
In fact, if the shape could be changed, it would provide pretty good broadside shields for any MAligN vessel since the Spider Legs would provide at least some protection in their own right.

I'm pretty sure sidewall shape can be change to fit the need, don't the spider drive ships have 3 sidewalls 1 between each keel? I assume they would have bow and stern walls as well as no wedge to deal with. I've actually wondered if there would be a weakness around where the sidewalls meet the spider drives gravity hooks. Also are they continous? could a lucky shot dissable one keel?
how fast do the gravity hooks move down the keel? considering stated acceleration rates probable pretty fast how many are there? How well does the gravity distortion they produce cover the keels?

I think the buckler walls on RMN ships cover most angles at each end from attack, and any spider drive ship trying to maneuver to get an energy torp shot is likely to be picked up by normal threat radar which has a detection range of about 1 mil km'slong before they get that shot. So some sort of sidewall eliminator is still likely to be required for any real chance of success with energy Torps.