How To Convert entire populace

He's a historian. He knows that there are no endings

n7axw wrote:
Most of if the earlier stuff is lighter and faster to read. No criticism of that.

RFC isn't much into endings, is he? Closest I can think of to having an actual ending is Apocalypse Troll.

Don

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Louis R wrote:He's a historian. He knows that there are no endings

n7axw wrote:
Most of if the earlier stuff is lighter and faster to read. No criticism of that.

RFC isn't much into endings, is he? Closest I can think of to having an actual ending is Apocalypse Troll.

Don

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That explanation makes as good of sense as anything else...

Don

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Prince Nahrmahn diverts a couple of those ships carrying the orphans, from the republic after the sword, to the New Alexandria enclave, in the same little island that Merlin tested the stream engin for a proper TF education. Whom prepare to meet the Gbaba instead of fighting the AOG, and will meet the rest of humanity after they make the first space walk.

"I am darth vader, from the planet vulcan!" - Back to the future.

Next series - Safehold Gbaba Wars, Return to Old Terra.

use that assault shuttle that merlin has, which has been collecting dust the whole series, and start building the Shan-wai enclave on the moon, Langhorne. Out of range of the OBS, free to poop on Langhorne, and no need to worry about the Rakurai coming down on them.

C. O. Thompson wrote:[[snip]



Peter2,

Well... there you go but there is more and it has been one of the more fascinating subplots or themes of these stories... how we cannot tell what a neighbor believes or thinks until they act. The double agent that attached himself to Corlis when he was sent into exile with Iris and Davein... the guy that blew up the powder mill or the agents of Helm Cleaver and even more... who could tell by looking at Merlin that he is really Nimue in a PICA's body.
The inner circle was very wise not to try to "dictate the conscious" of the people or to make it an obvious advantage to switch religions or a disadvantage to keep Temple Loyalist views, only if they produce acts of aggregation and violence were actions taken against them.
Your little song... I need to do more research on which religion Charles II as I don't know the difference between the Church of England and the High Church but this poor Vicar is in a jam no matter what as Charles II was executed and so his choice of temporary convenience is like a ping pong ball and it looks to me that the differences he faced were insignificant compared to what the people of Safehold have to deal with... yet they are dealing with them even when they don't know the extent and think only to reform the church in Zion. I think that David Weber is leading us more toward the conclusion reached in this contemporary song. The story told is a documented fact (see Christmas truce From Wikipedia)

John McCutcheon "Christmas in the Trenches"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1mnIG48S48

The real problem that humanity face in these stories is not that of the Gbaba but the need to overlook our petty differences to build with our common strengths. Today, we face the challenge of getting out of our gravity well so we (as a united race) can take advantage of resources which can be developed without further pollution to our home... but as long as PACs buy our government and deflect our resources to their own profit, we will not be likely to succeed.

Is this also a problem of "conversion"? Am I preaching to the choir?

What could we accomplish when we work together... God said "Nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them"


Genesis 11:1-9

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

Oh well... happy holidays

Sorry about the delay in replying — a few things caught up with me.

There was a lot of upset about religion and the Kings of England after Henry VIII excluded the Church of Rome as the established Church of England. Attempts were made to reinstate it by force, probably the best-known of which was the assault by the Spanish Armada during the reign of Elizabeth I in 1588.

I don't have a lot of depth in my religico-historical knowledge of the later Stuart kings of England, but here goes from what I do remember. It was Charles I who was beheaded, largely (but not wholly) because of his strict adherence to the Divine Right of Kings, or put another way, "We'll do things like I say, because I automatically have God's backing, and your opinion counts for nothing."

Following him came the Commonwealth, presided over by Oliver Cromwell. He held things together while he was alive, but the combination of the Puritannical suppression of pleasures and the lack of competence of his son, Richard, soon resulted in the Restoration of the monarchy, (in 1670 if my memory serves me rightly) in the person of Charles II. Charles was a closet Roman Catholic, but was bright enough not to push for his religion to become the official religion of the country, and the Church of England retained pride of place.

James II, Charles II's younger brother, succeeded him. He was less wise and less diplomatically adept then his brother, and tried more openly to displace the Church of England by the Church of Rome. This encouraged a Protestant rebellion led by the Duke of Monmouth, most viciously suppressed (look up Judge Jeffrey and the Bloody Assizes), and James's eventual toppling by William of Orange, who was the husband of James II's eldest daughter, Mary. TTBOMK this was the only time England and Scotland had a joint monarchy, because they ruled as a couple, William III and Mary II.

They were succeeded by Mary II's younger sister, who became Queen Anne, and it was in her reign that England and Scotland were formally united to form Britain.

Anne, none of whose children survived her, was succeeded by her second cousin, George of Hanover, who became George I, and was the first of Britain's Hanoverian Kings.

Each of these had slightly different "takes" on religion, hence the song "The Vicar of Bray".

George I was succeeded by George II, who was the last King of England to lead his troops in battle, at the the Battle of Dettingen in 1743. It was during his reign that the last attempt to restore the Stuart kings took place, in the form of the '45 (i.e. 1745) uprising. It was ultimately unsuccessful, and after initial success at the Battle of Prestonpans, was finally put down at the Battle of Culloden. The figurehead of the rebels, Charles Edward Stuart (aka Bonny Prince Charlie, or The Young Pretender) fled to France with a price on his head.

So the after-effects of Henry VIII's repudiation of the Pope's authority in 1527 rumbled on for over 200 years. Judging by this, conversion of the entire populace on Safehold will not take place, and it will be many years before the dissenting minority restricts its dissent to words rather than actions.
.

Accurate enough, for the most part, other than the fact that the Restoration was 1660. [1670 saw the founding of the Hudson's Bay Company - an altogether far more significant event, IMO] What you're missing is that all those rumblings involved one or more foreign powers stirring the pot, often in ways that left the Stuart kings with an excessive confidence in their ability to control things.

Peter2 wrote:

C. O. Thompson wrote:[[snip]



Peter2,

Well... there you go but there is more and it has been one of the more fascinating subplots or themes of these stories... how we cannot tell what a neighbor believes or thinks until they act. The double agent that attached himself to Corlis when he was sent into exile with Iris and Davein... the guy that blew up the powder mill or the agents of Helm Cleaver and even more... who could tell by looking at Merlin that he is really Nimue in a PICA's body.
The inner circle was very wise not to try to "dictate the conscious" of the people or to make it an obvious advantage to switch religions or a disadvantage to keep Temple Loyalist views, only if they produce acts of aggregation and violence were actions taken against them.
Your little song... I need to do more research on which religion Charles II as I don't know the difference between the Church of England and the High Church but this poor Vicar is in a jam no matter what as Charles II was executed and so his choice of temporary convenience is like a ping pong ball and it looks to me that the differences he faced were insignificant compared to what the people of Safehold have to deal with... yet they are dealing with them even when they don't know the extent and think only to reform the church in Zion. I think that David Weber is leading us more toward the conclusion reached in this contemporary song. The story told is a documented fact (see Christmas truce From Wikipedia)

John McCutcheon "Christmas in the Trenches"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1mnIG48S48

The real problem that humanity face in these stories is not that of the Gbaba but the need to overlook our petty differences to build with our common strengths. Today, we face the challenge of getting out of our gravity well so we (as a united race) can take advantage of resources which can be developed without further pollution to our home... but as long as PACs buy our government and deflect our resources to their own profit, we will not be likely to succeed.

Is this also a problem of "conversion"? Am I preaching to the choir?

What could we accomplish when we work together... God said "Nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them"


Genesis 11:1-9

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

Oh well... happy holidays

Sorry about the delay in replying — a few things caught up with me.

There was a lot of upset about religion and the Kings of England after Henry VIII excluded the Church of Rome as the established Church of England. Attempts were made to reinstate it by force, probably the best-known of which was the assault by the Spanish Armada during the reign of Elizabeth I in 1588.

I don't have a lot of depth in my religico-historical knowledge of the later Stuart kings of England, but here goes from what I do remember. It was Charles I who was beheaded, largely (but not wholly) because of his strict adherence to the Divine Right of Kings, or put another way, "We'll do things like I say, because I automatically have God's backing, and your opinion counts for nothing."

Following him came the Commonwealth, presided over by Oliver Cromwell. He held things together while he was alive, but the combination of the Puritannical suppression of pleasures and the lack of competence of his son, Richard, soon resulted in the Restoration of the monarchy, (in 1670 if my memory serves me rightly) in the person of Charles II. Charles was a closet Roman Catholic, but was bright enough not to push for his religion to become the official religion of the country, and the Church of England retained pride of place.

James II, Charles II's younger brother, succeeded him. He was less wise and less diplomatically adept then his brother, and tried more openly to displace the Church of England by the Church of Rome. This encouraged a Protestant rebellion led by the Duke of Monmouth, most viciously suppressed (look up Judge Jeffrey and the Bloody Assizes), and James's eventual toppling by William of Orange, who was the husband of James II's eldest daughter, Mary. TTBOMK this was the only time England and Scotland had a joint monarchy, because they ruled as a couple, William III and Mary II.

They were succeeded by Mary II's younger sister, who became Queen Anne, and it was in her reign that England and Scotland were formally united to form Britain.

Anne, none of whose children survived her, was succeeded by her second cousin, George of Hanover, who became George I, and was the first of Britain's Hanoverian Kings.

Each of these had slightly different "takes" on religion, hence the song "The Vicar of Bray".

George I was succeeded by George II, who was the last King of England to lead his troops in battle, at the the Battle of Dettingen in 1743. It was during his reign that the last attempt to restore the Stuart kings took place, in the form of the '45 (i.e. 1745) uprising. It was ultimately unsuccessful, and after initial success at the Battle of Prestonpans, was finally put down at the Battle of Culloden. The figurehead of the rebels, Charles Edward Stuart (aka Bonny Prince Charlie, or The Young Pretender) fled to France with a price on his head.

So the after-effects of Henry VIII's repudiation of the Pope's authority in 1527 rumbled on for over 200 years. Judging by this, conversion of the entire populace on Safehold will not take place, and it will be many years before the dissenting minority restricts its dissent to words rather than actions.
.

Louis R wrote:Accurate enough, for the most part, other than the fact that the Restoration was 1660. [1670 saw the founding of the Hudson's Bay Company - an altogether far more significant event, IMO] What you're missing is that all those rumblings involved one or more foreign powers stirring the pot, often in ways that left the Stuart kings with an excessive confidence in their ability to control things.

Peter2 wrote:




Sorry about the delay in replying — a few things caught up with me.

There was a lot of upset about religion and the Kings of England after Henry VIII excluded the Church of Rome as the established Church of England. Attempts were made to reinstate it by force, probably the best-known of which was the assault by the Spanish Armada during the reign of Elizabeth I in 1588.

I don't have a lot of depth in my religico-historical knowledge of the later Stuart kings of England, but here goes from what I do remember. It was Charles I who was beheaded, largely (but not wholly) because of his strict adherence to the Divine Right of Kings, or put another way, "We'll do things like I say, because I automatically have God's backing, and your opinion counts for nothing."

Following him came the Commonwealth, presided over by Oliver Cromwell. He held things together while he was alive, but the combination of the Puritannical suppression of pleasures and the lack of competence of his son, Richard, soon resulted in the Restoration of the monarchy, (in 1670 if my memory serves me rightly) in the person of Charles II. Charles was a closet Roman Catholic, but was bright enough not to push for his religion to become the official religion of the country, and the Church of England retained pride of place.

James II, Charles II's younger brother, succeeded him. He was less wise and less diplomatically adept then his brother, and tried more openly to displace the Church of England by the Church of Rome. This encouraged a Protestant rebellion led by the Duke of Monmouth, most viciously suppressed (look up Judge Jeffrey and the Bloody Assizes), and James's eventual toppling by William of Orange, who was the husband of James II's eldest daughter, Mary. TTBOMK this was the only time England and Scotland had a joint monarchy, because they ruled as a couple, William III and Mary II.

They were succeeded by Mary II's younger sister, who became Queen Anne, and it was in her reign that England and Scotland were formally united to form Britain.

Anne, none of whose children survived her, was succeeded by her second cousin, George of Hanover, who became George I, and was the first of Britain's Hanoverian Kings.

Each of these had slightly different "takes" on religion, hence the song "The Vicar of Bray".

George I was succeeded by George II, who was the last King of England to lead his troops in battle, at the the Battle of Dettingen in 1743. It was during his reign that the last attempt to restore the Stuart kings took place, in the form of the '45 (i.e. 1745) uprising. It was ultimately unsuccessful, and after initial success at the Battle of Prestonpans, was finally put down at the Battle of Culloden. The figurehead of the rebels, Charles Edward Stuart (aka Bonny Prince Charlie, or The Young Pretender) fled to France with a price on his head.

So the after-effects of Henry VIII's repudiation of the Pope's authority in 1527 rumbled on for over 200 years. Judging by this, conversion of the entire populace on Safehold will not take place, and it will be many years before the dissenting minority restricts its dissent to words rather than actions.
.

Agreed. The Stuarts were always supported (and in some cases funded) by France &/or Spain, who had a whole series of different agendas that would have been facilitated by England's reversion to Roman Catholicism as the dominant religion.

I also agree with the importance of the founding of the Hudson Bay Company. I visited Moosonee and Moose Factory in the Autumn of 1972 – fascinating!
.

Convert the whole population of Safehold??

Gimme a break...

Look around you at the world we live in. Can you seriously imagine the whole world we live in agreeing on anything, to say nothing at all about religion.

Don

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n7axw wrote:Convert the whole population of Safehold??

Gimme a break...

Look around you at the world we live in. Can you seriously imagine the whole world we live in agreeing on anything, to say nothing at all about religion.

Don

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Exactly so. That's what I was saying, with illustration. You know as well as I do that there are still people who believe that the Earth is flat, despite the abundance of pictures clearly showing it is near-spherical. As an aside, it was one of Arthur C Clarke's unfulfilled desires to be present at a conversation between a flat-earther and one of those people who believe that the surface of the Earth is on the inside of a hollow sphere . . .
.

AAMOF, yes, I can.

I don't think that there are any languages in the world lacking words that encompass the concepts of "up", "down" and "hot" - up towards the sky, down towards the ground, and hot what you get putting something in a flame. [note: that's not to says that every language has words that mean specifically or only up, down and hot.] I would like to add drop, but I'm not linguist enough to be sure how those languages that don't have true verbs handle the notion of letting something move towards the ground.

n7axw wrote:Convert the whole population of Safehold??

Gimme a break...

Look around you at the world we live in. Can you seriously imagine the whole world we live in agreeing on anything, to say nothing at all about religion.

Don

-