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How To Convert entire populace

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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:59 am

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I don't get the impression that Merlin is going to push for revenge ...


The upshot is that Merlin and Nimue are very much wanting revenge, or justice, if you will, for the murdered worlds of the Terran Federation.[/quote]

"Wanting" and "pushing for" are not necessarily the same thing.

The first step is making sure that Safehold can go after revenge -- or defend itself if not inclined to genocide.

There is likely to be a very fine line between defensive capability and offensive capability, but ensuring survival is the primary "push."[/quote]

The way I see it... waiting and pushing for are polar opposites with regards to another encounter with someone who has a proven desire to kill you.
On the one hand, failure to prepare is a recipe for death, on the other hand, (I just re-read Honor Among Enemies) we can expect the example of Aubrey Wonderman when he was under threat from the bully would serve as a good example.[/quote]

Or Honor practicing with the .45[/quote]



Exactly... The Gbabba should be as surprised as Denver Summerville and for about as long :o
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by mhicks   » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:24 pm

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Another thought I had was that the Gbaba are not the only aliens out there that don't like neighbors. The TF traveled for 10 light years into uncharted space. Safehold has been on borrowed time not having defenses against other space traveling species that are xenophobic. What made the Gbaba react to the TF the way they did? are the Gbaba bullies because some other race attacked them and now they go out looking for others that could try and hurt them too?

Anyway, instead of trying to tell everyone the truth right away, merlin needs to recruit more to get NEAT implants and get more thinkers in the hyper reality world to think of how to defeat the Gbaba. Hopefully what ever is under the Temple has been thinking this entire time and improving design and tactics taking the last 1000 years to do what the TF needed only 50 years to do and not have wasted the entire time daydreaming in the hyper realistic realm.

The Alexander enclave was a good start as to taking people out of the group of sheep that show potential and ability.

I have found with my own children that it does not mater how much truth and facts you have to support your argument, until they want to see it that way, your words are even bigger lies than the wrong ideas in their heads. example:

Child: "Why can't I jump to the moon?"
Me: "gravity keeps us falling back to earth."
Child: "No, there is no gravity."
Me: "watch this hammer." I drop it and it falls to earth... I throw it up and it falls to earth.
Child: "That is not from gravity, you are just weak."

Just imagine that with Merlin telling them about the Gbaba.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by Expert snuggler   » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:51 pm

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Other aliens are potential allies as well.

The TF never had a successful first contact, did they? They met the Gbaba and were too late to meet any of the victims.

One problem with Gbaba-prep is that the expense would be horrendous and people would come up with one rationalization after another for not doing it. Until of course they made contact, at which point it would probably be too late.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by n7axw   » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:56 pm

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Expert snuggler wrote:Other aliens are potential allies as well.

The TF never had a successful first contact, did they? They met the Gbaba and were too late to meet any of the victims.

One problem with Gbaba-prep is that the expense would be horrendous and people would come up with one rationalization after another for not doing it. Until of course they made contact, at which point it would probably be too late.


This could be a real problem. You would have to have the need for being ready for the Gbaba instnctively a part of the culture to a degree we can't really fathom...

Dlon

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by Expert snuggler   » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:42 pm

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They make better devils than a deceased terraforming expert.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:29 pm

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n7axw wrote:This could be a real problem. You would have to have the need for being ready for the Gbaba instnctively a part of the culture to a degree we can't really fathom...


This is why Merlin shouldn't even try for 100% conversion of the populace. It is going to take a dedicated -- almost fanatic -- space force to be ready to face the Gbaba or any other space-faring threat. It is much easier to indoctrinate an elite force of about 5% of the general population than it is to indoctrinate an entire planet.

Financing will have to come from continued Charisian Imperial support and/or profits from technology sold on the open market -- need RADAR components; Sell lots of microwave ovens.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by TBird50   » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:53 pm

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100% is totally out of the realm of possibility IMO. Look at our own situation. I think I can safely say that we all want what's "best" for our country. But the definition of what's "best" is totally divergent - more government/less government; more taxes/less taxes; etc Human nature being what it is, Safehold would be no different.

I wonder if another alien race might be in the cards. As someone mentioned, they could be potential allies. Of course they could be another Gbaba too, or the next target for the Gbaba. However, if they could be allies, they might be able to jump start a large enough force to deal with the Gbaba (OTH we don't really know how large is large enough). Man my head hurts trying to think how this can all end successfully. Luckily, I think RFC has a plan...
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by 6L6   » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:21 am

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It might take thousands of years for a Religion to fade away. Just think of how many Religions have disappeared in the last 2000 years.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by Dauntless   » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:13 am

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n7axw wrote:
Expert snuggler wrote:Other aliens are potential allies as well.

The TF never had a successful first contact, did they? They met the Gbaba and were too late to meet any of the victims.

One problem with Gbaba-prep is that the expense would be horrendous and people would come up with one rationalization after another for not doing it. Until of course they made contact, at which point it would probably be too late.


This could be a real problem. You would have to have the need for being ready for the Gbaba instnctively a part of the culture to a degree we can't really fathom...

Dlon

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and we saw in Mutineer's Moon and the follow on books how that can have its own problems
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by n7axw   » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:46 am

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Dauntless wrote:
and we saw in Mutineer's Moon and the follow on books how that can have its own problems


Well you'll have to admit that the 4th Imperium was ready. Had the Actutanni actually showed up on their watch, they'd have been in a world of hurt...

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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