How To Convert entire populace

n7axw wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:I don't get the impression that Merlin is going to push for revenge ...

The upshot is that Merlin and Nimue are very much wanting revenge, or justice, if you will, for the murdered worlds of the Terran Federation.

"Wanting" and "pushing for" are not necessarily the same thing.

The first step is making sure that Safehold can go after revenge -- or defend itself if not inclined to genocide.

There is likely to be a very fine line between defensive capability and offensive capability, but ensuring survival is the primary "push."

Weird Harold wrote:
"Wanting" and "pushing for" are not necessarily the same thing.

The first step is making sure that Safehold can go after revenge -- or defend itself if not inclined to genocide.

There is likely to be a very fine line between defensive capability and offensive capability, but ensuring survival is the primary "push."

Agreed.

Don

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Weird Harold wrote:I don't get the impression that Merlin is going to push for revenge ...

The upshot is that Merlin and Nimue are very much wanting revenge, or justice, if you will, for the murdered worlds of the Terran Federation.[/quote]

"Wanting" and "pushing for" are not necessarily the same thing.

The first step is making sure that Safehold can go after revenge -- or defend itself if not inclined to genocide.

There is likely to be a very fine line between defensive capability and offensive capability, but ensuring survival is the primary "push."[/quote]

The way I see it... waiting and pushing for are polar opposites with regards to another encounter with someone who has a proven desire to kill you.
On the one hand, failure to prepare is a recipe for death, on the other hand, (I just re-read Honor Among Enemies) we can expect the example of Aubrey Wonderman when he was under threat from the bully would serve as a good example.

C. O. Thompson wrote:... waiting and pushing for are polar opposites ...

Waiting and pushing are indeed opposites, but waNting and pushing are often synonymous. Although I don't think they are in this case.

Expert snuggler wrote:There's a serious dramatic conflict looming.

What happens when Safehold is a multi-system spacefaring society with TF technology and Merlin pushes for revenge against the Gbaba?

The practical response from the Safeholders would be to tell Merlin to go to his happy place and leave them alone. They might ask him to see a Bedardist to get over his obsession with revenge.

A victory against the Gbaba would come at an agonizing cost.

My impression is that the Gbaba are out hunting for other races to get rid of. That means conflict is inevitable at some point. Safehold needs to built up it's navy to the point that Gbaba fleets can be taken with little loss. If Safehold chooses when to fight it will be at a lot lower cost than waiting for the Gbaba to find them.

Loren Pechtel wrote:

Expert snuggler wrote:There's a serious dramatic conflict looming.

What happens when Safehold is a multi-system spacefaring society with TF technology and Merlin pushes for revenge against the Gbaba?

The practical response from the Safeholders would be to tell Merlin to go to his happy place and leave them alone. They might ask him to see a Bedardist to get over his obsession with revenge.

A victory against the Gbaba would come at an agonizing cost.

My impression is that the Gbaba are out hunting for other races to get rid of. That means conflict is inevitable at some point. Safehold needs to built up it's navy to the point that Gbaba fleets can be taken with little loss. If Safehold chooses when to fight it will be at a lot lower cost than waiting for the Gbaba to find them.

The impression that our author left us with during one of his posts is that the Gbabba are not out looking for other races to cide. But if you transgress on what they regard as their area of influence, they are utterly ruthless about the measures they take to be certain you do not repeat the offense.

Don

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[/quote]

Waiting and pushing are indeed opposites, but waNting and pushing are often synonymous. Although I don't think they are in this case.[/quote]

You are correct sir and I have to be on my guard due to a mild case of dyslexia before I form an opinion that might be read by millions (well at least hundreds) of fine people

The Gbaba seem to be all about stasis. If they're expanding in spite of that, then Safehold doesn't have a day to spare.

Expert snuggler wrote:There's a serious dramatic conflict looming.

What happens when Safehold is a multi-system spacefaring society with TF technology and Merlin pushes for revenge against the Gbaba?

The practical response from the Safeholders would be to tell Merlin to go to his happy place and leave them alone. They might ask him to see a Bedardist to get over his obsession with revenge.

A victory against the Gbaba would come at an agonizing cost.

Come to think of it, it was always the Safeholders's fate to have others decide their destiny. Even if the good guys had won the political battles in the colonization board, they would still have imposed a temporary technology blackout.

(Was the good guys's plan to wait out the Gbaba and reboot technological civilization after a few centuries, or was it just to keep an enclave around Just In Case?)

In any event, all Merlin has really done is to save Charis. His actual political power is limited. Cayleb is the type who would insist on winning any major argument.

Even if Merlin has a bit of a revenge fantasy, it doesn't matter. He'll get his way in the end precisely because they have imperfect information about the Gbaba and that means there's the potential for Gbaba actions outside what the Ark planners anticipated.

Based on how recent the ruins TF explorers found were (if only because they hadn't yet been lost to time and physical decay), and their relative proximity to Sol, it would seem apparent that sentient life isn't that uncommon in the Safehold universe in both a physical and temporal sense. There aren't tens of thousands of years separating the development of new space-faring polities, which is one of the many hypothetical explanations for the Fermi paradox. There are probably numerous species at various stages of development between the old TF territory and the Safehold system. Any one of these species might rise, alert the Gbaba, and trigger a new search spreading out towards Safehold.

How likely? I haven't a clue. But the point is that the Gbaba will *always* serve as a Sword of Damocles looming over humanity no matter what course of action they take. Humanity has no control over that sword and when or where it may or may not strike. So they have no choice but to arm themselves sufficiently to survive and beat the Gbaba. And at that point, they might as well take the initiative themselves to attack before the Gbaba can mobilize their own Fleet and strike at a time of their choosing. Call it revenge or a preemptive strike, the end result is the same.

And it makes for a much better story.

C. O. Thompson wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:I don't get the impression that Merlin is going to push for revenge ...

The upshot is that Merlin and Nimue are very much wanting revenge, or justice, if you will, for the murdered worlds of the Terran Federation.

"Wanting" and "pushing for" are not necessarily the same thing.

The first step is making sure that Safehold can go after revenge -- or defend itself if not inclined to genocide.

There is likely to be a very fine line between defensive capability and offensive capability, but ensuring survival is the primary "push."[/quote]

The way I see it... waiting and pushing for are polar opposites with regards to another encounter with someone who has a proven desire to kill you.
On the one hand, failure to prepare is a recipe for death, on the other hand, (I just re-read Honor Among Enemies) we can expect the example of Aubrey Wonderman when he was under threat from the bully would serve as a good example.[/quote]

Or Honor practicing with the .45