Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:I just got back home from airing my wife's hair out. I have a 568 hp sport's car. 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. Top listed speed 201mph. I notice that its oversized brakes bleeds speed faster than my average car. A noticeable difference in stopping distance.


Does textev give acceleration to deceleration ratios between ships? Is it directly proportional?

Wedges only work one direction (well you can somehow manage relatively slow heading changes). But its clear in the books if you want to slow down you flip 180 degrees and accelerate the other way to cancel out the accel vector you built.

So their stopping power is exactly equal to their going power. A ship capable of accelerating at 600g is only able to slow down at 600g.


[Well, even now Haven and Manticore normally restrict their ships to 90% of max accel as a safety margin - so in theory in an emergency a ship that had been accelerating at 600g could go to emergency power and manage to decelerate at 667g - but at a noticeably increased risk of compensator failure and death.)

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:I just got back home from airing my wife's hair out. I have a 568 hp sport's car. 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. Top listed speed 201mph. I notice that its oversized brakes bleeds speed faster than my average car. A noticeable difference in stopping distance.


Does textev give acceleration to deceleration ratios between ships? Is it directly proportional?

Wedges only work one direction (well you can somehow manage relatively slow heading changes). But its clear in the books if you want to slow down you flip 180 degrees and accelerate the other way to cancel out the accel vector you built.

So their stopping power is exactly equal to their going power. A ship capable of accelerating at 600g is only able to slow down at 600g.


[Well, even now Haven and Manticore normally restrict their ships to 90% of max accel as a safety margin - so in theory in an emergency a ship that had been accelerating at 600g could go to emergency power and manage to decelerate at 667g - but at a noticeably increased risk of compensator failure and death.)

Thanks. So for the most part, it is directly proportional. A ship has the same braking power as its accel. And the same decel advantage over an enemy as its accel advantage.

cthia wrote:Thanks. So for the most part, it is directly proportional. A ship has the same braking power as its accel.

It would be more precise to say that ships in the Honorverse can only accelerate -- either with the direction of travel or against it, but it is all acceleration from exactly the same equipment with exactly the same capabilities.

For sure.

What I'm trying to get to solidify in my head is the advantages that most faster cars have over a much slower car in deceleration as well.

I spent almost two months across the pond one summer. On my return to the states, I had to keep watching my speed. I was there to purchase an Aston Martin. I took a driving class along with. It was given at Bedford Autodrome track in England A very nice, converted Airforce Base turned driving course.

I learned to handle that British Bulldog quite well. And I wanted to enjoy its speeds, legally, before shipping it back to the states. Upon returning to the states, I might (disclaimer) have been caught on radar allegedly running over a 100 -- which is nothing for an Aston Martin, trust me. It feels more like 50 -- quite boring. I'm normally a very safe driver, but after a couple months at speeds in that car, one has to learn to drive 55 all over again. As I said, I might have been caught on radar exceeding the speed limit. But that is NOT the same thing as being caught by the police.

The advantages of a super fast car is NOT only in its acceleration. It is as much in its deceleration. Its ability to quickly accelerate, gain an advantage in distance, then just as quickly decelerate and change vectors (roads) with the astern chaser being none the wiser.

I am simply trying to transfer the same advantage to ships in the Honorverse. We always hear of the accel advantage. When surely the ability to quickly decelerate as fast, and as faster than an enemy would afford the same advantage.

For the sake of that argument, I wanted to forego the anal accuracy of its mechanics.


****** *

Now for a-side of pillow talk as a shout-out to my sponsor - my wife:

I drive England's British Bulldog, the Aston Martin. I became enamored with the car after admiring one in the hands of Honor Harrington's male counterpart...

"Bond, James Bond."

"Mander, Sally Mander."

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2376&start=843

Friends, Romans and Countrymen, do forgive my sharing of this bit of "too much information." But I simply must gloat. I drive a very fast British sports car (when I'm feeling frisky) with a very beautiful English girl riding shotgun. I simply love the beautiful accent of an English girl. Talk about something as simple as syllables becoming very effective foreplay, I'm telling you. My wife could recite the Declaration of Independence while we're making love and I'll soon see Stars and Stripes! And driving with a fast grin on her face in the passenger seat is sexy as hell...

"My stars, this karr is faust!" Such a sexy accent!

She knows how much I adore it and she plays along with. Ever since watching NEED FOR SPEED, every time she rides with me, she role plays and imitates that sexy little kitten Imogen Poots.

""You're amazing! I'm amazing! We're amazing!"

Drives me wild. How lucky am I?

Okay, end of kiss and tell.

Lets assume honorverse ships are cars. Everyone has a zero to 60 time ranging from an hour (a sporty little DB) to two hours (a huge ponderous freighter), while their their top end ranges from 250 to 300 and takes them a from one to two days to reach. But since they are driving on greased glass with ultra smooth ceramic wheels and NO BRAKES, they don't turn or stop worth a damn.

Honorverse ships brake just as fast or as slow as they accelerate because there are no brakes. And their top speed takes many many hours to attain.

Lots of other things to consider.
A PT or MTB boat may do 45 knots, but that is in a smooth sea. A cruiser or destroyer may do 35 knots but that is across a much wider range of conditions. It is quite possible for a cruiser to run down a PT boat in medium to heavy seas.
For the car analogy Cthia obviously wants to tell everyone about his Aston and fair enough as they are beautiful cars even if Enzo did call them the fastest lorries in Europe. I have now sold my road registered Lotus derived clubman racer, but it did 0-60 in 2.9, standing quarter in 12.7, and at club meets lapped Astons, Lambos and Ferraris. However it had a top whack of 240kph @ 9000rpm, so on an autobarn Cthia would have got away from me. The point I am laboriously trying to make that conditions are important, circumstances as well, and a lot depends on how crazy the person on the helm is.

As the old cowboy saying goes "Ain't a horse that cain't be rode, ain't a rider that cain't be throwed".

Before the LACs had a bow shield their safe top speed probably was slower than most ships, even if they got there quicker.

Daryl wrote:Before the LACs had a bow shield their safe top speed probably was slower than most ships, even if they got there quicker.

Not really, they just had crap drive nodes, which resulted in crap wedges, which resulted in crap acceleration, all of which derived from having crap fusion cores providing low amounts of power. The presence/absence of bow walls has virtually no effect on how fast/slow an Honorverse ship can do, they have low-end particle screens that stop very small micrometeorites and dust from destroying ships.

Prior to Manticore's Ghost Rider program, everyone built LAC's like mini-warhips, with mini bells and whistles so it continued to resemble other warships, with mini broadsides. Then Manticore came out with Ghost Rider, which spawned the upgraded nodes and Manticore went back to the drawing board on LAC's to create the first-generation monsters known as Shrike's.

drothgery wrote:

Dauntless wrote:some of the crew savings are going to be a pain when the RMN returns to a more peacetime navy and spends most of its time to anti-piacry and similar where the lack of marines will seriously hamper ops.

Barring significant (and close to Manticore/the wormhole network) parts of the remnants of the League descending into old-Silesia-like havens for piracy and/or the emergence of someone that replaces Mesa/Manpower as a covert sponsor of piracy aimed at Manticore, anti-piracy is going to be a much smaller concern in the long run, even with far more systems to protect than they had in the past.

an excellent point but we have no idea what solly space is going to look like after the war.

yes a lot of them will be manty ally or RF. but I could see RF subsiding pirates and sicking them on manty merchies in an effort to keep manticore somewhat contained.

sileasa has been the main haven for pirates but it was not the the only place piracy existed, just the one that mattered to manticore.

kzt wrote:Lets assume honorverse ships are cars. Everyone has a zero to 60 time ranging from an hour (a sporty little DB) to two hours (a huge ponderous freighter), while their their top end ranges from 250 to 300 and takes them a from one to two days to reach. But since they are driving on greased glass with ultra smooth ceramic wheels and NO BRAKES, they don't turn or stop worth a damn.

Honorverse ships brake just as fast or as slow as they accelerate because there are no brakes. And their top speed takes many many hours to attain.

Exactly, which I initially hoped would translate into a tactical advantage in at least one area, I surmise. Try and match vectors with me here. Remember Honor's dilemma with Ajax? She couldn't afford to decelerate long enough to do any good. Against a SLN ship in the same scenrio, her decel advantage might have afforded her enough time to offer more assistance.

The thing is that I'd like an account where the advantage in decel is used as an explicit tactical advantage as well. I suppose it indirectly translates so. But I'd like to conceive of a specific scenario where the decel advantage is instrumental. Other than a damaged ship able to haul ass running flat out and able to begin deceleration much later than its average SLN counterpart, before preparing to enter hyper, because it can more closely stop on an Honorverse dime? But that's not so. >shrugs<

Incidentally, I never understood why Fearless couldn't cut thru Ajax' bay doors with her laser.

Daryl wrote:Lots of other things to consider.
A PT or MTB boat may do 45 knots, but that is in a smooth sea. A cruiser or destroyer may do 35 knots but that is across a much wider range of conditions. It is quite possible for a cruiser to run down a PT boat in medium to heavy seas.
For the car analogy Cthia obviously wants to tell everyone about his Aston and fair enough as they are beautiful cars even if Enzo did call them the fastest lorries in Europe. I have now sold my road registered Lotus derived clubman racer, but it did 0-60 in 2.9, standing quarter in 12.7, and at club meets lapped Astons, Lambos and Ferraris. However it had a top whack of 240kph @ 9000rpm, so on an autobarn Cthia would have got away from me. The point I am laboriously trying to make that conditions are important, circumstances as well, and a lot depends on how crazy the person on the helm is.

As the old cowboy saying goes "Ain't a horse that cain't be rode, ain't a rider that cain't be throwed".

Before the LACs had a bow shield their safe top speed probably was slower than most ships, even if they got there quicker.

Nuh uh! Cthia didn't want to tell everyone about his Aston. He wanted to tell everyone about his brand new, beautiful English wife (damn she's hot!) riding along with, talking in that sexy accent in his brand new Aston!

I just took delivery of the Bondmobile a couple of weeks ago. I just retired my other. This is my third. The other two are in storage facilities. I now collect Astons. Two of my five brothers have much faster cars. Make that three, as I sold my *McLaren F1 to one. The brothers and most of my friends collect cars because they're super fast. I collect them because I like them. Lotuses are ugly to me. I'd only purchase one if they actually sprouted wings and flew. I have a friend who has a DeLorean. He is proud of the gullwing doors. But, I'm sorry, with the doors closed, the car is ugly! He should have had it shipped back to the future where they could actually make it fly.

I like Astons! They fit me. They are me. Big. Fast. Sexy. Beautiful. And it sings the right melody to my ears. They don't call it the British Bulldog for nothing. And it's perfectly fine driving along in traffic whining like a puppy or barking like a vicious bulldog when angered. So they're practical to boot.

And, driving two English beauties at the same time just seems... poetic... and... fascinating. And I like getting under the bonnet of both.

Thanks for understanding Daryl. Men have an innate desire and downright responsibility to talk fast cars and beautiful women -- or vice versed adjectives.

I straight out don't like Lamborghinis -- hate the way they feel (sit) and look. Ferraris are beautiful machines and I like their exhaust note. My brother collects them. I don't like the way they feel (drive). I don't connect with Ferraris and it's important to me that I do. I wear a particular designer's clothing not because of the brand name or cost, but because of the fit.

I wear English girls because they are hot. The accents make them even hotter. But I married Gemma, because she fits. We fit. If a girl doesn't fit together in your arms like the right piece of puzzle -- she's the wrong piece.

Incidentally, my wife doesn't necessarily like driving fast cars. She likes riding in them. When she's driving, her preference, oddly enough is:

1. Convertible. "I like the feel of the wind. It excites me."
2. Red.
3. American. She likes American cars. She drives a red, convertible Camaro and she loves it. *It's odd how most Americans seem to like foreign cars but many foreigners like American cars. Most of the points fit on that curve.
4. My wife's second car is a hulking Cadillac Escalade which she drives most of the time. "I love this big American camper! I like that I look down on everything" lol

*Except a brother, who collects and drives Mustangs only! I told my wife she is not going to mimic Imogen Poots in my brother's Mustang. lol

*The McLaren that I sold to my brother would have fetched a pretty price at auction. They are rare cars. But I promised my brother I'd sell it to him if I ever sold it. He gave me a good price for it. I more than doubled what I paid for it. Though it's worth lots more. I always keep a promise.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ction.html

Even if Haven had destroyed Trevor's Star's shipyards in the process of capturing the system, they would have needed to have at least repair capasity in-system. San Martin was a place they were going to have to hold and would have been a major fleet basing and economic node had the war gone their way.

Having taken San Martin, they eventualy had forced Manticore to withdraw through the wormhole to the Junction. At that point, Haven had several things that needed doing all at once. They needed to plug the Trevor's Star end of the wormhole and defend it against attacks through the wormhole and from hyperspace. They needed to defend the San Martin system against attacks by Manticore to a) liberate it and b) raid the fleet basing operation. They needed -one presumes they needed- to use the San Martin system as at least a forward base for the war against Manticore as well as deal with the partizan fighting on the planet (and possibly elsewhere in the system after the surrender of the government to Haven. That civil unrest would appear to dictate a rather large occupation force with the military logistics to support it which would be concurrent with PRH N protecting the system.

Even if Haven didn't start rebuilding "fixed" shipyards or at least repair yards, they would have needed to move in repair and engineering ships along with the logisitics train to support both routine maintenance and combat damage to PRH N. They are a LONG way from Haven. They need that system and the wormhole, at least when they eventually take Manticore since it is the major access point for Haven to Manticore and then to the SL markets (even if Haven doesn't actually have any plans to expand deeper into the SL)

If they build up a repair facility purely though mobil operations such as recovery & repair ships, those would (or should) have been able to leave the system in the timeframe of Manticore retaking it. Anything not able to leave may or may not have been destroyed, depending on Haven planning and the speed of the eventual fall of the system.

Just one more of those things that will remain off camera.