Girandoni air rifle

Just a question here but are radar-linked Hotchkiss cannons or long-range radar linked guns outside the realms of possibility? As I understood that radar needs a constant source of power to work reliably,so would it be possible for them to run off steam power,if the principles allowed such a thing? I'm thinking that maybe Langhorne and the other members of the command crew that pulled this were so sure that removed all innovation from the Safehold colonists that they didn't allow for such things in the proscriptions,so maybe they could squeeze such a thing in?

Michae wrote:Just a question here but are radar-linked Hotchkiss cannons or long-range radar linked guns outside the realms of possibility?

Not while the OBS is still active and the Proscriptions are in effect.

RADAR relies on electro-magnetic radiation, with the emphasis on "Electro" as far as the Proscriptions are concerned.

Hi Don,

The pair of Rottweilers, HMS Lightning and Seamount, should have arrived at Claw Island back in early September, and Howsmyn's comment regarding the KHVII's that a couple of monthes would be good was at the beginning of August, so they might finally be completed in early October [the end of HFQ] and given 24 days to steam to Claw Island might be in action against Dohlar some time in November, when some of the Cities may also arrive, so much of this concern over the screw galleys might be well be moot when the first snippets clear the air of our various concerns.

L

n7axw wrote:

Michae wrote:*quote="evilauthor"*What exactly would Charis need gatling armed ships for? Shell fire is already perfectly serviceable as anti-personnel ammo and there's no aircraft that need to be shot down. Meanwhile, "hundreds of rounds per minute" is probably inadequate as point defense against katyusha missile storms.*quote*

I was thinking that something that could rapidly fire high-explosive shells would severely impact the screw-galley idea that the COGA are using,and send them back to the drawing-board altogether,as I don't see them being afloat for long under such a bombardment. If it could be elevated sufficiently it might make a good anti-rocket system as well,depending on how fragile the rockets are.

Shells produced for Gattling guns would be awefully light and they would have to cope with those armored forecastles on the screw galleys. Probably the minimum needed would be those wire wound cannon on the Rotweillers. Dreadnaught probably would have destroyed the screw galleys all together had it not been for the distraction of the rest of the Dohlaran fleet. IIRC, those were 4" rifled cannon. Anything much less would simply bounce off.

By the time the screw galleys encounter the Cities, the guns are powerful enough to simply blow the screw galleys out of the water. That is not even to factor in the fact against a steam powered ironclad, they completely lose their speed and maneuverability advantage.

Don

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Weird Harold wrote:3000 troops with AK Clones or BAR clones for a total of 1,800,000 rounds-per-minute?

The problem with quoting six hundred rounds a minute figures for automatic rifles is that the soldiers won't be carrying that much ammo, and the rifles won't last that long if you tried to maintain that fire rate. A crew served machine gun, either with multiple or changeable barrels, can keep the rate of fire up much longer; and even have enough ammo nearby to supply them (at least when used defensively).

Astelon wrote:A crew served machine gun, either with multiple or changeable barrels, can keep the rate of fire up much longer; and even have enough ammo nearby to supply them (at least when used defensively).

A fair point, and I've said much the same numerous times; Crew Served weapons are good for defense, but Charis is offensive-minded so crew-served weapons slow them down. Especially crew-served direct-fire weapons like machine guns.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

The pair of Rottweilers, HMS Lightning and Seamount, should have arrived at Claw Island back in early September, and Howsmyn's comment regarding the KHVII's that a couple of monthes would be good was at the beginning of August, so they might finally be completed in early October [the end of HFQ] and given 24 days to steam to Claw Island might be in action against Dohlar some time in November, when some of the Cities may also arrive, so much of this concern over the screw galleys might be well be moot when the first snippets clear the air of our various concerns.

L

All true. This thread started out by considering the usefulness of air guns. I should have volunteered my Daisy, but didn't think of it. But sinse we've thoroughly hijacked the thread...

More seriously this discussion belongs more over in the screw galleys v mortars thread, but my concern was to extend the usefulness of galleons against more advanced ideas such as the screw galleys. The ICN is still mostly wooden ships like the schooner and the galleon after all, both of which are now outdated.

There is no question but what the ironclads will dominate at sea. The issue is that there probably isn't enough of them to be all of the places they need to be. For example, if Zhastro is transfered over to the Gulf of Dohlar, who will mind the store and see to it that the Desnairians don't redo their privateer building shipyards?

Don

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Hi Weird Harold,

HEAT warheads need to be much broader than a 6 pounder, which was always ~2.25", and whose armor piercing capability depended far more on its high velocity solid shot.

Since HEAT warheads depend on the Monroe effect, which hasn't been discovered yet on Safehold according to the textev, they're not an option against the screw galleys.

The HE content of the Hotchkiss revolver cannon were tiny, as were such small caliber cannon through WWII, so something bigger is needed, in the 3-4" range to have a useful HE load.

Whether its the 1897 French 75mm, the 3.45" 25 pounder/88mm [low velocity] or 4-4.5", mounting them on something more mobile than a becalmed sailing ship is the key.

The Rottweilers could each be carrying 2-4 steam launches in lieu of the usual sailing ship's boats, since the KHVII's didn't need them yet.

They could be quite fast enough armed with a short 4" BL, with a high rate of fire, to ruin the screw galleys' soon-to-be short day.

L

Weird Harold wrote:

evilauthor wrote:What exactly would Charis need gatling armed ships for?

n7axw wrote:Shells produced for Gattling guns would be awefully light and they would have to cope with those armored forecastles on the screw galleys. Probably the minimum needed would be those wire wound cannon on the Rotweillers.

Gatlings were usually rifle caliber -- fine for repelling boarders, but not terrible effective as anti-ship weapons. Not that I've seen any suggestion that ships be armed with only Gatlings.

The Hotchkiss Revolving Cannons, OTOH, started at 37mm with HE shells, and went up form there to the vicinity of British six-pounder caliber -- roughly 4.5 inches or 10mm bore.

A Hotchkiss clone with a HEAT (High Explosive, Anti-Tank) round would probably deal with the screw-galley frontal armor just fine. (Probably in any caliber R/W Hotchkiss were built, certainly in the higher calibers.)

Other than repelling boarders, or developing HEAT rounds for rifled cannon or a Hotchkiss clone, there's not any pressing need for automatic weapons on Safehold at this time. I doubt that Charis can build an adequate point-defense weapon against rocket volleys with useful numbers of rockets.

Hi Don,

The 10 to 15" coast defense rockets mentioned are unguided, ie very inaccurate, further more they'd weigh between 1000-1500 pounds; so given the inevitably large inaccurate dispersion, they will probably require a stationary multiple rail launcher which combines training and elevation; ie rather complicated, including the problems of how is it powered and reloaded.

Dragons might work using pulleys underneath, but the whole project is full of vast numbers of 'unknown unknown' details that could take a decade or two to unravel.

Details that will take years to work out include how heavy and stiff should the launch rail be for each rocket, in order not to deflect the missile trajectory.

Given how crude the AoG's rockets are at the moment, this war will likely be long over before such heavy missiles can seriously threaten the KHVII's etc.

Obviously the current CoGA rockets while only a nuisance to the KHVII's and ironclads, could be quite deadly to the ICN's wooden galleons, so we may see such a scene in AtSoT.

L

n7axw wrote:Given that the church is restricted to black powder, I wonder hoe those rockets would fare against the armor on the Cities or the Haarahlds... Anybody got any ideas?

Don

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Hi Michae,

Welcome to the forums, please enjoy your favorite simulated beverage on the simulated forum.

The very fine tracking, including the platform training and elevation etc required for such an anti-rocket mission is practically impossible without electricity, even if radar is ruled out because even the optical systems require electric enhancement, being beyond the capability of a steam powered directly controlled mechanically geared device; a major reason having to with something called a rheostat to name just one.

L

Michae wrote:

evilauthor wrote:What exactly would Charis need gatling armed ships for? Shell fire is already perfectly serviceable as anti-personnel ammo and there's no aircraft that need to be shot down. Meanwhile, "hundreds of rounds per minute" is probably inadequate as point defense against katyusha missile storms.

I was thinking that something that could rapidly fire high-explosive shells would severely impact the screw-galley idea that the COGA are using,and send them back to the drawing-board altogether,as I don't see them being afloat for long under such a bombardment. If it could be elevated sufficiently it might make a good anti-rocket system as well,depending on how fragile the rockets are.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

The 10 to 15" coast defense rockets mentioned are unguided, ie very inaccurate, further more they'd weigh between 1000-1500 pounds; so given the inevitably large inaccurate dispersion, they will probably require a stationary multiple rail launcher which combines training and elevation; ie rather complicated, including the problems of how is it powered and reloaded.

Dragons might work using pulleys underneath, but the whole project is full of vast numbers of 'unknown unknown' details that could take a decade or two to unravel.

Details that will take years to work out include how heavy and stiff should the launch rail be for each rocket, in order not to deflect the missile trajectory.

Given how crude the AoG's rockets are at the moment, this war will likely be long over before such heavy missiles can seriously threaten the KHVII's etc.

Obviously the current CoGA rockets while only a nuisance to the KHVII's and ironclads, could be quite deadly to the ICN's wooden galleons, so we may see such a scene in AtSoT.

L

The only concrete textev we have is that the inner circle was concerned about plunging fire from a coastal defense variant of the rockets upon the Harrahlds thinly armored decks.

Don

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