Safehold Oil and Gas Industry

Laenole wrote:I had forgotten the reference to South Charis and Emerald Island having extensive oilfields. It is in MTaT Chapter VII, April Year of God 896. Thanks, Don.

But the paragraph it is in seems to imply that kerosene is not being made presently. It says that Zhansyn Wyllys, the distillation enthusiast from the dragon oil family, could develop extracting kerosene from coal tar. It goes on to say that this plus Safehold’s current drilling and pumping tech along with the oilfields “was likely to lead to a completely new industry”. This seems to indicate to me that the oilfields are known only in Shan-wei’s database in Owl’s library.

While development of the petroleum industry is in Safehold’s long term interest, it is a tough call as to whether distillation should be applied to the production of Poudre B or Cordite. The original Poudre B formula was 68.2% insoluble guncotton, 29.8% soluble nitrocellulose gelatinized with ether, and 2% paraffin. It was almost immediately replaced by a more stable version that added amyl alcohol as a stabilizer. Later, the amyl alcohol was replaces by aniline.

The current Cordite is a triple-base explosive (contains 3 explosive chemicals) that needs a raw material produced through the use of an electric arc furnace. The earliest version is a double-base mixture of 58% nitroglycerin, 37% guncotton, and 5% petroleum jelly. Acetone is then used as a solvent to produced cords of the product (hence its name) of the desired size.

Currently, Charis is producing guncotton and nitroglycerin. The ether can be produced by the reaction of ethanol and sulfuric acid. The amyl alcohol stabilizer for Poudre B can be obtained from the high boiling residue of the ethanol distillation. Acetone can be obtained by the reaction of eggshells or limestone (Calcium carbonate) with vinegar.

The petroleum jelly is obtained by the vacuum distillation of the waxy deposits from drilling or refining. The best stabilizer for Poudre B, aniline, can be obtained by distilling coal tar for its benzene, reacting it with nitric acid, then reducing it with an inorganic sulfide.

Since all components of Poudre B, including the first stabilizer, amyl alcohol, are available now, it is a good initial target. The cordite would have to wait for the actual development of the petroleum industry. Since coal tar seems to be the initial target of distillation projects, obtaining benzene to make the better aniline stabilizer for Poudre B seems a logical part of the project. This would also stimulate the future development of the chemical industry by the eventual production of aniline dyes.

Longer term, the kerosene from coal tar and eventually coal would develop a market for a major component of crude oil. Of course, the gasoline, diesel, and bunker oil will be valuable for different internal combustion machines. It seems to me that producing Poudre B will be quicker and more likely to be used in this war.

Laenole wrote:I had forgotten the reference to South Charis and Emerald Island having extensive oilfields. It is in MTaT Chapter VII, April Year of God 896. Thanks, Don.

But the paragraph it is in seems to imply that kerosene is not being made presently. It says that Zhansyn Wyllys, the distillation enthusiast from the dragon oil family, could develop extracting kerosene from coal tar. It goes on to say that this plus Safehold’s current drilling and pumping tech along with the oilfields “was likely to lead to a completely new industry”. This seems to indicate to me that the oilfields are known only in Shan-wei’s database in Owl’s library.

While development of the petroleum industry is in Safehold’s long term interest, it is a tough call as to whether distillation should be applied to the production of Poudre B or Cordite. The original Poudre B formula was 68.2% insoluble guncotton, 29.8% soluble nitrocellulose gelatinized with ether, and 2% paraffin. It was almost immediately replaced by a more stable version that added amyl alcohol as a stabilizer. Later, the amyl alcohol was replaces by aniline.

The current Cordite is a triple-base explosive (contains 3 explosive chemicals) that needs a raw material produced through the use of an electric arc furnace. The earliest version is a double-base mixture of 58% nitroglycerin, 37% guncotton, and 5% petroleum jelly. Acetone is then used as a solvent to produced cords of the product (hence its name) of the desired size.

Currently, Charis is producing guncotton and nitroglycerin. The ether can be produced by the reaction of ethanol and sulfuric acid. The amyl alcohol stabilizer for Poudre B can be obtained from the high boiling residue of the ethanol distillation. Acetone can be obtained by the reaction of eggshells or limestone (Calcium carbonate) with vinegar.

The petroleum jelly is obtained by the vacuum distillation of the waxy deposits from drilling or refining. The best stabilizer for Poudre B, aniline, can be obtained by distilling coal tar for its benzene, reacting it with nitric acid, then reducing it with an inorganic sulfide.

Since all components of Poudre B, including the first stabilizer, amyl alcohol, are available now, it is a good initial target. The cordite would have to wait for the actual development of the petroleum industry. Since coal tar seems to be the initial target of distillation projects, obtaining benzene to make the better aniline stabilizer for Poudre B seems a logical part of the project. This would also stimulate the future development of the chemical industry by the eventual production of aniline dyes.

Longer term, the kerosene from coal tar and eventually coal would develop a market for a major component of crude oil. Of course, the gasoline, diesel, and bunker oil will be valuable for different internal combustion machines. It seems to me that producing Poudre B will be quicker and more likely to be used in this war.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Laenole,

Welcome to the forums, please enjoy your favorite simulated beverage on the simulated forum.

We had various references to oil, rock oil and gas from OAR onward as the 'Earl of Black Water' indicated, with further mention of other fields etc in other books; so while exploitation isn't apparently yet up to the ancient Chinese, medicinal, glues and binders, local road construction, and water proofing besides obvious fuel use were probably in play before Merlin.

< snip >

Louis R wrote:Unfounded assumption time:

Historically, the term Black or Dark Water has _not_ referred to petroleum far more often than it has. One of the better known examples, as an illustration, is the dubh ghlas of lowland Scotland, so named in the mists of antiquity for the color of the water [it later gave its name to the family and Earldom of Douglas - "Earl of Black Water" is a literal translation of Earl of Douglas]. But that color comes from the peat it runs through, like many of the other Black or Blackwater Rivers I know [there are a couple in northern Ontario, too]. Some, like the Niger, carry heavy loads of black silt. Quite a few were simply named after somebody from the Black family.

What none of the ones I've tracked down have is an association with petroleum. Or even coal, for that matter. So it's just as likely that the Earl of Black Water is presiding over a deep murky pond as a tar pit.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Laenole,

Welcome to the forums, please enjoy your favorite simulated beverage on the simulated forum.

We had various references to oil, rock oil and gas from OAR onward as the 'Earl of Black Water' indicated, with further mention of other fields etc in other books; so while exploitation isn't apparently yet up to the ancient Chinese, medicinal, glues and binders, local road construction, and water proofing besides obvious fuel use were probably in play before Merlin.

< snip >

lyonheart wrote:The advantages of gas and oil for heating in Howsmyn's various industries seem the most likely current route to more general use, eventually from CoGA spies to its remnants.

Louis R wrote:Unfounded assumption time:

Historically, the term Black or Dark Water has _not_ referred to petroleum far more often than it has. One of the better known examples, as an illustration, is the dubh ghlas of lowland Scotland, so named in the mists of antiquity for the color of the water [it later gave its name to the family and Earldom of Douglas - "Earl of Black Water" is a literal translation of Earl of Douglas]. But that color comes from the peat it runs through, like many of the other Black or Blackwater Rivers I know [there are a couple in northern Ontario, too]. Some, like the Niger, carry heavy loads of black silt. Quite a few were simply named after somebody from the Black family.

What none of the ones I've tracked down have is an association with petroleum. Or even coal, for that matter. So it's just as likely that the Earl of Black Water is presiding over a deep murky pond as a tar pit.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Laenole,

Welcome to the forums, please enjoy your favorite simulated beverage on the simulated forum.

We had various references to oil, rock oil and gas from OAR onward as the 'Earl of Black Water' indicated, with further mention of other fields etc in other books; so while exploitation isn't apparently yet up to the ancient Chinese, medicinal, glues and binders, local road construction, and water proofing besides obvious fuel use were probably in play before Merlin.

< snip >

WeberFan wrote:

Louis R wrote:Unfounded assumption time:

Historically, the term Black or Dark Water has _not_ referred to petroleum far more often than it has. One of the better known examples, as an illustration, is the dubh ghlas of lowland Scotland, so named in the mists of antiquity for the color of the water [it later gave its name to the family and Earldom of Douglas - "Earl of Black Water" is a literal translation of Earl of Douglas]. But that color comes from the peat it runs through, like many of the other Black or Blackwater Rivers I know [there are a couple in northern Ontario, too]. Some, like the Niger, carry heavy loads of black silt. Quite a few were simply named after somebody from the Black family.

What none of the ones I've tracked down have is an association with petroleum. Or even coal, for that matter. So it's just as likely that the Earl of Black Water is presiding over a deep murky pond as a tar pit.


*quote="lyonheart"*Hi Laenole,

Welcome to the forums, please enjoy your favorite simulated beverage on the simulated forum.

We had various references to oil, rock oil and gas from OAR onward as the 'Earl of Black Water' indicated, with further mention of other fields etc in other books; so while exploitation isn't apparently yet up to the ancient Chinese, medicinal, glues and binders, local road construction, and water proofing besides obvious fuel use were probably in play before Merlin.

< snip >

*quote*

You're absolutely right Louis. Water color being black means next to nothing when it comes to being a predictor of hydrocarbons being present. Silt being present is one way to get "black water" as you say. Another is the presence of lots of organic matter (peat immediately comes to mind). A better predictor is the telltale "sheen" that you see when you have oil floating on water. Take a sample bucket full of water and let it sit quietly for a few minutes. The oil will invariably rise to the top. Shine a light on it and look for the sheen... Of course that tells you only that hydrocarbons are present... Tells you NOTHING about how MUCH is there.

WeberFan wrote:SNIP...

lyonheart wrote:The advantages of gas and oil for heating in Howsmyn's various industries seem the most likely current route to more general use, eventually from CoGA spies to its remnants.

I don't recall the relative heat content of coal versus heavy fuel oil, but IMHO the main (by far) benefit of oil versus coal for furnaces is the ease of transportation. Coal transport requires a continuous infrastructure. Oil transport requires one-time infrastructure building (the pipeline).

Then once it's in place, the oilfields supply local (to the manufacturing facility) "service tanks" that (in turn) supply fuel oil to the furnaces. The burner heads in the furnaces don't even have to be precision-designed - just "good enough." But the more precise they are - the more you can atomize the fuel and the better you can A) mix it with the combustion air and B) control the oil-air mix, the better heating you'll get.

With just a little care and experimentation, I could reasonably see Charis factories generating and using high-pressure, superheated steam to drive steam turbines as well as reciprocating steam engines. This would give them immense flexibility and would increase manufacturing capability by an order of magnitude - if not even more.

AirTech wrote:Coal can be pumped too (when mixed as a slurry with water) or blown down pipes.
Historically however there was a preference for lump coal for boiler and blast furnace firing (as the air paths are maintained). Coal dust firing was tried (and is still used in most coal fired thermal power stations)but was found to be harder to control in the small scales used in mobile steam engines ...