Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:We've been discussing Manticoran wealth from many angles. What about Havenite wealth? Did textev mention any wealthy Havenites?

I'm curious about the financial status of Pritchart. What do they pay Presidents in the Honorverse anyways? Certainly when Pritchart steps aside she will be a wealthy woman?

I imagine many opportunities have opened up for Havenites to share in the lucrative Manticoran lifestyle.

I'm certain that Elizabeth has helped grease a financial easy street for her new friend.

More Than Honor, The Universe of Honor Harrington, (6) Interstellar Politics and Imperialism, (C) The People's Republic of Haven: wrote:The government saw only two ways out: to bite the bullet, end deficit spending, abolish the BLS, and hope to weather the resultant catastrophic reorganization, or to find some other source of income to shore up the budget. The possibility of admitting they could no longer pay the interest on Haven's mortgaged future was too much for them to stomach, which meant only the second solution was a real possibility, but there was no more money to be squeezed out of the economy. A panicked group of legislators suggested draconian "soak the rich" schemes, but the majority recognized that any such panacea would be purely cosmetic. Aside from their own hidden assets, the wealthy represented less than 0.5% of the total population, and the totally confiscatory taxes proposed would provide only a temporary reprieve . . . and eliminate both future private investment and the highest tax brackets (already taxed at 92% on personal income and 75% on investment income) as a long-term revenue source. A self-sustaining tax base could be produced only by a strong middle class, and the middle class had been systematically destroyed; what remained of it was far too small to sustain the government's current rate of expenditure and had been for almost a century.

Flag In Exile, Chapter 7 wrote:And so he had. He'd pointed at the Legislaturalists as traitors who'd battened on the wealth that should have gone to the Dolists, denounced them as profiteers and grafters, and the undeniable wealth of the great Legislaturalist families had made it work, for they had siphoned off immense fortunes. But what he hadn't told the mob—what the mob hadn't wanted to hear—was that all the wealth of all the Legislaturalists of the PRH was meaningless against its debts. Nationalizing their fortunes had provided a temporary relief, a fleeting illusion of improvement, yet it could be no more than that, and so he'd given the mob the Legislaturalists themselves. He'd loosed Oscar Saint-Just's new Office of State Security upon them and watched the "People's Courts" condemn family after family to death for "treason against the people." And as the execution totals rose, he'd learned a terrible truth: bloodletting simply begat more bloodletting. The conviction that the mob had a right to vengeance upon its "betrayers" only fanned the frenzy with which that vengeance was demanded, and when the supply of victims ran short, new ones were required.

Vince wrote:

cthia wrote:We've been discussing Manticoran wealth from many angles. What about Havenite wealth? Did textev mention any wealthy Havenites?

I'm curious about the financial status of Pritchart. What do they pay Presidents in the Honorverse anyways? Certainly when Pritchart steps aside she will be a wealthy woman?

I imagine many opportunities have opened up for Havenites to share in the lucrative Manticoran lifestyle.

I'm certain that Elizabeth has helped grease a financial easy street for her new friend.

The Peoples of Republic of Haven, having squandered the wealth of the Republic of Haven, had few wealthy individuals other than the Legislaturists.

More Than Honor, The Universe of Honor Harrington, (6) Interstellar Politics and Imperialism, (C) The People's Republic of Haven: wrote:The government saw only two ways out: to bite the bullet, end deficit spending, abolish the BLS, and hope to weather the resultant catastrophic reorganization, or to find some other source of income to shore up the budget. The possibility of admitting they could no longer pay the interest on Haven's mortgaged future was too much for them to stomach, which meant only the second solution was a real possibility, but there was no more money to be squeezed out of the economy. A panicked group of legislators suggested draconian "soak the rich" schemes, but the majority recognized that any such panacea would be purely cosmetic. Aside from their own hidden assets, the wealthy represented less than 0.5% of the total population, and the totally confiscatory taxes proposed would provide only a temporary reprieve . . . and eliminate both future private investment and the highest tax brackets (already taxed at 92% on personal income and 75% on investment income) as a long-term revenue source. A self-sustaining tax base could be produced only by a strong middle class, and the middle class had been systematically destroyed; what remained of it was far too small to sustain the government's current rate of expenditure and had been for almost a century.

Boldface is my emphasis.

And Rob Pierre in

Flag In Exile, Chapter wrote:And so he had. He'd pointed at the Legislaturalists as traitors who'd battened on the wealth that should have gone to the Dolists, denounced them as profiteers and grafters, and the undeniable wealth of the great Legislaturalist families had made it work, for they had siphoned off immense fortunes. But what he hadn't told the mob—what the mob hadn't wanted to hear—was that all the wealth of all the Legislaturalists of the PRH was meaningless against its debts. Nationalizing their fortunes had provided a temporary relief, a fleeting illusion of improvement, yet it could be no more than that, and so he'd given the mob the Legislaturalists themselves. He'd loosed Oscar Saint-Just's new Office of State Security upon them and watched the "People's Courts" condemn family after family to death for "treason against the people." And as the execution totals rose, he'd learned a terrible truth: bloodletting simply begat more bloodletting. The conviction that the mob had a right to vengeance upon its "betrayers" only fanned the frenzy with which that vengeance was demanded, and when the supply of victims ran short, new ones were required.

Italics are the author's, boldface is my emphasis.

The current Republic of Haven, given its recent rebirth from the People's Republic of Haven probably has few if any wealthy individuals in it. (The reborn Republic of Haven simply hasn't been around long enough for someone to have become very wealthy.)

Harry S. Truman
Harry S. Truman, after his presidency, moved with his wife Bess into his mother-in-law's home in Independence, Mo. Truman was one of the first presidents to receive a pension, a sum of $25,000 annually, which helped to keep him afloat. He and his wife were also the first recipients of Medicare after it was signed into law.


Ulysses S. Grant
The 18th president, Ulysses S. Grant, died broke. He lost $100,000 after being defrauded by his son's business partner, Ferdinand Ward. The sizable loss forced Grant into bankruptcy. Grant also had a reputation for spending more money than he had. He and his wife lived the high life. They indulged in luxury travel and fine dining, despite the fact that they could not afford an extravagant lifestyle. It wasn't until after his death that Grant was able to give his family some financial security. His posthumous civil war memoirs sold for nearly half a million dollars.


William Henry Harrison
Bad luck might be the reason for the bulk of William Henry Harrison's money problems. The ninth president of the U.S. fell on hard times after inclement weather destroyed his farm's crops while he was serving as the Ambassador to Colombia. Despite his lack of supply, creditors were still demanding payment and Harrison struggled to meet his financial obligations. Upon his death, Harrison had nothing, and Congress set up a special $25,000 pension for his widow.


Thomas Jefferson
One of the better known presidents, Thomas Jefferson appeared to lead a comfortable life. He was the son of wealthy parents. In fact, for much of his life he was one of the wealthiest presidents of all time. As an adult he owned a 5,000 acre plantation in Virginia called Monticello and had about 200 slaves. The third president's estimated net worth was $212 million. Yet, the author of the Declaration of Independence and founder of the University of Virginia was saddled with significant debt in his later years, and he was never able to get out of the hole. He was unsuccessful in his attempt to auction off his land to pay off creditors. He left no inheritance to his surviving daughter, and she was forced to live off of charity.


James A. Garfield
The 20th president was born into poverty. He grew up in a log cabin in Ohio with four siblings. He worked various odd jobs from carpenter to janitor to get himself through college. Despite passing the Ohio bar exams, Garfield dedicated much of his life to public service and never made much money. He died tragically in 1881 as a result of an assassination. Garfield was penniless at the end of his life.

Flag in Exile Chapter 1 wrote:"In the war's first six months," he said, "Manticore captured nineteen Havenite star systems, including two major fleet bases. Their total capital ship losses during that time were two superdreadnoughts and five dreadnoughts, against which they destroyed forty Havenite ships of the wall. They also added thirty-one capital ships to their own order of battle—twenty-six captured units, exclusive of the eleven Admiral White Haven gave us after Third Yeltsin, and five more from new construction. That put them within roughly ninety percent of the Peeps' remaining ships of the wall, and they had the advantage of the initiative, not to mention the edge the People's Navy's confusion and shattered morale gave them.

What are the two major fleet bases referenced? Trevor's Star and...?

cthia wrote:

Flag in Exile Chapter 1 wrote:"In the war's first six months," he said, "Manticore captured nineteen Havenite star systems, including two major fleet bases. Their total capital ship losses during that time were two superdreadnoughts and five dreadnoughts, against which they destroyed forty Havenite ships of the wall. They also added thirty-one capital ships to their own order of battle—twenty-six captured units, exclusive of the eleven Admiral White Haven gave us after Third Yeltsin, and five more from new construction. That put them within roughly ninety percent of the Peeps' remaining ships of the wall, and they had the advantage of the initiative, not to mention the edge the People's Navy's confusion and shattered morale gave them.

What are the two major fleet bases referenced? Trevor's Star and...?

The Manties were on a roll. As a result of the alliance, I wonder if all prisoners and star systems will ultimately be returned -- those that want to be returned that is.

And what was the final disposition on Trevor's Star to be?

Duckk wrote:

What are the two major fleet bases referenced? Trevor's Star and...?

Trevor's Star wasn't captured that early. They're definitely talking about Seaford Nine though.

cthia wrote:Thanks.

I was involved in some major league wrestling with that one. I couldn't think of any of what I thought was a major fleet base except Trevor's Star.

Truthfully, I didn't think it had been "ultimately" acquired at that point either. But I seem to remember that Trevor's Star changed hands a few times before it was "ultimately" taken and kept. And I couldn't remember when it was taken first, IINM.