Using TF tech on Safehold...

cralkhi wrote:

evilauthor wrote:2) It has to be kept hidden from the ignorant public. Which means it has to be disguised as innocuous natural and/or obviously mortal made objects. There's a bit of leeway here given the lack of actual forensic science (like the use of advanced chemical explosives), but nothing obviously "supernatural" should be going on, at least not anywhere they intend to leave live, credible witnesses to the event. On the flip side, entire fleets going up to mysterious magazine explosions or even just disappearing in a hurricane is verboten because it'd trip Safeholdian "supernatural!" alarms even if the individual events LOOK perfectly mundane.

I think Merlin's strategy may actually be wrong here. The Writ says any demonic intervention will be opposed by angelic intervention, so if Merlin did obvious supernatural stuff, then either:

-he's an angel
-the Writ is wrong
-he's some other thing not mentioned in the Writ

None of these options are good for the COGA.

That supposes his 'Supernatural' stuff doesn't cause riots rebellions and mutinies in the Alliance, the vast majority of whose people believe fervently in God, the Archangels and the Church 'better led'. The Writ constrained mindset is not limited to the CoGA side in this. People in the EoC may be willing to stretch things a bit more because they trust Maikel and Caleb and hate Clyntahn, but at the street level there are limits. They are emphatically not some rationalist post-enlightenment crowd when it comes to their faith.

Randomiser wrote:
That supposes his 'Supernatural' stuff doesn't cause riots rebellions and mutinies in the Alliance, the vast majority of whose people believe fervently in God, the Archangels and the Church 'better led'. The Writ constrained mindset is not limited to the CoGA side in this. People in the EoC may be willing to stretch things a bit more because they trust Maikel and Caleb and hate Clyntahn, but at the street level there are limits. They are emphatically not some rationalist post-enlightenment crowd when it comes to their faith.

Absolutely. People won't let a little thing like reason interfere with matters of faith. That's true in our own timeline. Frankly it's true of me. I have my own list of irreducibles that rationalism isn't allowed to touch.

Don

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evilauthor wrote:And don't forget, Merlin does NOT want to be seen as any kind of angel or supernatural authority figure. He wants to encourage humanity to start thinking for itself again, a goal which is NOT served by him pretending to be the Archangels or whatever returned to Safehold. It doesn't serve his ultimate purpose to simply change what supernatural authority figure that Safehold looks to for answers.

Also, he'd eventually have to reveal that he's NOT an angel or other supernatural figure, which would in the long run ultimately damage his credibility with people.

This only applies if he claims to be an archangel, which I agree he shouldn't do.

I was suggesting he just DO stuff, and continue to deny he is an angel.

Merlin probably wouldn't think of doing it, but IMO that's at least partly due to his own limitations, IMO.

n7axw wrote:Merlin has already been declared demon by the COGA in the aftermath of the rescue of Daivyn and Irys... that God has not intervened against the demon is just one of those inconvenient little facts that the TLs are ignoring just now. It's something that might bite them in the arse later, but this is now...

Don

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Yeah, and his being declared a demon didn't hurt the Charisians' opinion of him at all, because they don't believe it.

Randomiser wrote:That supposes his 'Supernatural' stuff doesn't cause riots rebellions and mutinies in the Alliance,

I think Maikel Staynair et al. would be able to keep that from happening.

Anyway, I think the Charisians wouldn't even worry at this point - given the emotions running high, I'm sure they see Cayleb, Sharleyan, Merlin etc. as basically God's chosen agents anyway.

cralkhi wrote:I think Maikel Staynair et al. would be able to keep that from happening.

Anyway, I think the Charisians wouldn't even worry at this point - given the emotions running high, I'm sure they see Cayleb, Sharleyan, Merlin etc. as basically God's chosen agents anyway.

Which is always a precarious position if I recall my Bible stories.

Here's one I remember: God imbues his most faithful followers with healing powers and tells them to go among the people and do Good Works and spread the word. The followers do so and become famous heroes renowned for their good works and healing ability. Due to all the praise, the followers become prideful and arrogant and start neglecting God's work in favor of self profit. At which point their powers stopped working because God didn't like that, and all their fortunes and fame deserted them because they could no longer perform.

Sound familiar? It's the same basic story as the Church of God Awaiting. And if Cayleb, Merlin, et al let their success go to their heads, it could be THEIR story too. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that they're as effective as they are because they DON'T think of themselves as God's agents... or at least don't have a license from God to do whatever they please unlike a certain Grand Inquisitor.

In short, they might be God's agents, but only as long as they don't think of themselves that way.