Using TF tech on Safehold...

Keith_w wrote:
Sorry, let me be a little more explicit. There is no text evidence of the automated use of the the orbital bombardment system to bombard safehold.

Right. The only incident we have of the OBS's use apart from the attack on the Alexandrian enclave was on the SSK abbey which was clearly a chosen target.

Don

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Keith_w wrote:Sorry, let me be a little more explicit. There is no text evidence of the automated use of the the orbital bombardment system to bombard safehold.

That's pretty much irrelevant to Merlin's concerns about the OBS. He has to take into account how it could have been programmed, not how it has been used in the past.

Merlin knows what the technology available to the buidlers of the OBS was capable of, and has to assume a worst-case use of those capabilities. IOW, the OBS could be programmed for autonomous strikes and Merlin has to act as if it was.

Weird Harold wrote:

Keith_w wrote:Sorry, let me be a little more explicit. There is no text evidence of the automated use of the the orbital bombardment system to bombard safehold.

That's pretty much irrelevant to Merlin's concerns about the OBS. He has to take into account how it could have been programmed, not how it has been used in the past.

Merlin knows what the technology available to the buidlers of the OBS was capable of, and has to assume a worst-case use of those capabilities. IOW, the OBS could be programmed for autonomous strikes and Merlin has to act as if it was.

Agreed. But the whole subject of the OBS and what's under the Temple is going to have to be dealt with eventually. I admit for my own part that I haven't a clue how that will all shake out.

Don

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n7axw wrote:Agreed. But the whole subject of the OBS and what's under the Temple is going to have to be dealt with eventually. I admit for my own part that I haven't a clue how that will all shake out.

Don

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Sure, but the OP was asking what restrictions Merlin and company are operating under when it comes to use Federation tech. Operating under worst case assumptions about the OBS is one of those restrictions.

evilauthor wrote:

n7axw wrote:Agreed. But the whole subject of the OBS and what's under the Temple is going to have to be dealt with eventually. I admit for my own part that I haven't a clue how that will all shake out.

Don

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Sure, but the OP was asking what restrictions Merlin and company are operating under when it comes to use Federation tech. Operating under worst case assumptions about the OBS is one of those restrictions.

Again, agreed. The previous post was merely a random thought that rattled through my head.

Don

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The skimmer isn't all that flashy a device. Merlin did get nervous about running it hypersonic for the Sharleyan rescue, concerned that the heat signature might trip some sensor that had not noticed more sedate traffic.

evilauthor wrote:2) It has to be kept hidden from the ignorant public. Which means it has to be disguised as innocuous natural and/or obviously mortal made objects. There's a bit of leeway here given the lack of actual forensic science (like the use of advanced chemical explosives), but nothing obviously "supernatural" should be going on, at least not anywhere they intend to leave live, credible witnesses to the event. On the flip side, entire fleets going up to mysterious magazine explosions or even just disappearing in a hurricane is verboten because it'd trip Safeholdian "supernatural!" alarms even if the individual events LOOK perfectly mundane.

I think Merlin's strategy may actually be wrong here. The Writ says any demonic intervention will be opposed by angelic intervention, so if Merlin did obvious supernatural stuff, then either:

-he's an angel
-the Writ is wrong
-he's some other thing not mentioned in the Writ

None of these options are good for the COGA.

cralkhi wrote:

evilauthor wrote:2) It has to be kept hidden from the ignorant public. Which means it has to be disguised as innocuous natural and/or obviously mortal made objects. There's a bit of leeway here given the lack of actual forensic science (like the use of advanced chemical explosives), but nothing obviously "supernatural" should be going on, at least not anywhere they intend to leave live, credible witnesses to the event. On the flip side, entire fleets going up to mysterious magazine explosions or even just disappearing in a hurricane is verboten because it'd trip Safeholdian "supernatural!" alarms even if the individual events LOOK perfectly mundane.

I think Merlin's strategy may actually be wrong here. The Writ says any demonic intervention will be opposed by angelic intervention, so if Merlin did obvious supernatural stuff, then either:

-he's an angel
-the Writ is wrong
-he's some other thing not mentioned in the Writ

None of these options are good for the COGA.

In a rational world you would be right... but on Safehold??

Merlin has already been declared demon by the COGA in the aftermath of the rescue of Daivyn and Irys... that God has not intervened against the demon is just one of those inconvenient little facts that the TLs are ignoring just now. It's something that might bite them in the arse later, but this is now...

Don

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n7axw wrote:In a rational world you would be right... but on Safehold??

Merlin has already been declared demon by the COGA in the aftermath of the rescue of Daivyn and Irys... that God has not intervened against the demon is just one of those inconvenient little facts that the TLs are ignoring just now. It's something that might bite them in the arse later, but this is now...

Don

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And don't forget, Merlin does NOT want to be seen as any kind of angel or supernatural authority figure. He wants to encourage humanity to start thinking for itself again, a goal which is NOT served by him pretending to be the Archangels or whatever returned to Safehold. It doesn't serve his ultimate purpose to simply change what supernatural authority figure that Safehold looks to for answers.

Also, he'd eventually have to reveal that he's NOT an angel or other supernatural figure, which would in the long run ultimately damage his credibility with people. And hell, people who have known him for any length of time quickly come to the realization that he's NOT an omniscient being or flawlessly competent (and this in Book ONE no less!). So there's no way he could maintain such a facade of perfection even if he tried to.

evilauthor wrote:

n7axw wrote:In a rational world you would be right... but on Safehold??

Merlin has already been declared demon by the COGA in the aftermath of the rescue of Daivyn and Irys... that God has not intervened against the demon is just one of those inconvenient little facts that the TLs are ignoring just now. It's something that might bite them in the arse later, but this is now...

Don

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And don't forget, Merlin does NOT want to be seen as any kind of angel or supernatural authority figure. He wants to encourage humanity to start thinking for itself again, a goal which is NOT served by him pretending to be the Archangels or whatever returned to Safehold. It doesn't serve his ultimate purpose to simply change what supernatural authority figure that Safehold looks to for answers.

Also, he'd eventually have to reveal that he's NOT an angel or other supernatural figure, which would in the long run ultimately damage his credibility with people. And hell, people who have known him for any length of time quickly come to the realization that he's NOT an omniscient being or flawlessly competent (and this in Book ONE no less!). So there's no way he could maintain such a facade of perfection even if he tried to.

This is an important point. Merlin is willing to and has been providing assistance, but as far as possible, he encourages them to figure it out for themselves and live or even sometimes die by the results.

Don

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