Alinsky?

There are eight levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state. The first is the most important:

1) Healthcare Control healthcare and you control the people.

2) Poverty Increase the poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.

5) Welfare Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income)

6) Education Take control of what people read and listen to and take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools.

8) Class Warfare Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Does any of this sound like what is happening to the United States?

Can anyone verify or refute this?

People call me paranoid. I will comment more later when I have time, but I would have thought that number 7 (Religion) was one of the tools used to control the sheeple.

To my mind most developed countries are actually getting freer. Even part of the US has gay marriage and legalised pot now.

DDHvi wrote:

There are eight levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state. The first is the most important:

1) Healthcare Control healthcare and you control the people.

2) Poverty Increase the poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.

5) Welfare Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income)

6) Education Take control of what people read and listen to and take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools.

8) Class Warfare Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Does any of this sound like what is happening to the United States?

Can anyone verify or refute this?

Daryl wrote:People call me paranoid. I will comment more later when I have time, but I would have thought that number 7 (Religion) was one of the tools used to control the sheeple.

Religion doesn't always mean believing in God, it just means believing in something. Druids believe in natural forces, Jedi believe in the Force (yes, it is a valid religion now!) and many primitive tribes practice ancestor veneration (those that don't have creation myths, that is). Atheism is also a religious position, even though it is the denial of a God. To quote the late Terry Pratchett, "If an Atheist did not believe, they would not bother to deny".
To me, religion is any kind of formalized or semi-formalized belief structure.
...which means that by that definition Communism is also a religion.
Explains why Communism is opposed to other religions. Religious intolerance is unfortunately very, very common.

My comment on religion was referring to the state control exercised in theocracies, present and past. Saudi Arabia, Iran and many such today, the Holy Roman Empire and other medieval religious kingdoms in the past.
The point about communism is well taken also.
Item 1 (Healthcare) is very strange. From what I have seen Obamacare is nothing like as encompassing as the national health care systems in developed countries that have existed for many decades, yet we have not had the faintest tendency anywhere of them being used to control the populace.

The whole discussion misses the point of why. I can't see why any person or group of people intelligent enough to plan a take over of the US would want to. If you get complete power then you have to not only govern but administer, and that is hard boring work.

Well, 1.
America has about the worst health care in the developed world.

Your first thought when looking for a job should not be the health plan.
Being sick should not drive you bankrupt due to hospital bills.

A healthcare insurance broker should not decide if you live or die due to cost.

2, a social state is about removing poverty. At it's worst it's about redistributing wealth from the stupidly rich to the every day worker Joe.
To even make a claim that the opposite is true is to show ignorance.

3. Debt increase, which is a huge problem in the US at the moment, is being driven by the corporate oligarchy. The exact opposite to what point 3 claims.
If you doubt this, look at the debt that people are suffering from.
Corrupt GOP governments with their bullshit fines for not paying fines to force people into private prisons run by their financial supporters, corrupt banks playing fast and loose with fiduciary rules and responsibilities, and those payday loan scammers.

And look, they all donate big time to politicians, especially GOP ones.

4. Just don't bother. You wont look anyway.

5. Strangely, it's the right that does this not the socialists.
The conservative christian right.

6. Yeppers. But not limited to social states. In fact in the US the far right is the one doing this.

7. If you're refering to America, I point you to the US constitution which says it shouldn't be there in the first place.

8 happening but wrong.

While a lot of it does sound like what is happening, it's the capatalistic oligarchy that is doing it, not any boogeyman socialist.




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Daryl wrote:Item 1 (Healthcare) is very strange. From what I have seen Obamacare is nothing like as encompassing as the national health care systems in developed countries that have existed for many decades, yet we have not had the faintest tendency anywhere of them being used to control the populace.

Because, obviously, they aren't. Now there exists hypothetical situations in which a dictatorship that controlled all access to medical care could obviously use that control coercively but it would have to be a dictatorship *first*. There is simply no way that that happens in a democratically run government.


It just goes back to the same old blind spot in conservative ideology that rules this entire debate and makes them all think their guns are the things keeping them safe and free when it's nothing of the kind. It's their damn vote that's doing that. They love to rant about the Nazis and them supposedly confiscating weapons (I'll just skip past the dubious understanding of history involved there) and they never clue in to the fact that the Nazis's didn't take over by force. They took over by appealing to the populace through fear and ignorance and bigotry and the demonization of immigrants and minorities and foreigners and their trumpeting of blind nationalism and getting ELECTED.



And these people who love so much to point at the Nazis as the scary object lesson then go flocking to Trump rallies to cheer him ranting about the Muslims and the Mexicans.

The simple fact is both political parties use their power in dictitorial ways, misuse of the IRS, Homeland Security, and yes probably the Health care system is likely. When the political clas is above the law they become lawless, DUH!

Poker

pokermind wrote:The simple fact is both political parties use their power in dictitorial ways, misuse of the IRS, Homeland Security, and yes probably the Health care system is likely. When the political clas is above the law they become lawless, DUH!

Poker

Which is why Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are currently so popular.