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Symmyns' 30,000

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Symmyns' 30,000
Post by saber964   » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:34 pm

saber964
Admiral

Posts: 2423
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:41 pm
Location: Spokane WA USA

lyonheart wrote:Hi DDHvi,

Waiting for the general's tent door to open?

At two miles?

This sounds rather fanciful at best; more detail is certainly required before spreading this whopper.

In all the hundreds of books on the American Civil War I've read, I've never come across anything even close to this.

Now the experienced Union general John Sedgwick [West Point class of '37] was shot in hie left cheek May 9,1864 {Battle of Spotsylvania] at a range of 800 yards after telling the soldier in front of him who had ducked down "they couldn't hit an elephant at this range", who then stood, saluted and responded that he had dodged a cannonball that would have taken his head off, so he believed in dodging; the general replied "all right my man, go to your place" [on the ground] being hit just seconds later.

He was mourned all who knew him, including his good friend Robert E. Lee.

I know veterans who used to salute stupid officers in field exercises (who insisted on being saluted everywhere) "Sniper Check, Sir!" until they began to see the light.

L


DDHvi"quote="Loren Pechtel wrote:*quote="NHBL"*How far away could a crack shot, with the best gun and scope that is Safehold made (or made by Merlin in such a way that it can't be proven by the church to be other than locally built, anyway) reliably kill a selected target? (Not a PICA, just a really, really good sniper)

Long range assination may become important. Of course, the church knows that people can be shot from rediculous ranges now, anyway,*quote]*

I think it's going to come down to the powder rather than the gun. Super long range sniping needs very reliable propellant.

Also, the bigger the bullet and the more powder the longer range you can shoot--ordinary sniper rifles are limited in this regard by recoil. Put too much oomph into the bullet and you break the shooter's shoulder.

snip



I once read that in the US civil war, a sniper with a heavy rifle (I think a Sharps), extra powder, and much preparation managed to kill a general at close to two miles range. In something like this, there is always an element of chance: he fired when the tent door was opened - by an aide - but the general was right behind the aide.
[/quote]


Actually Sedgwick's last words were "They couldn't hit the broadside of an elephant at this dis-".
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Re: Symmyns' 30,000
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:11 pm

lyonheart
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi Saber964,

Didn't you read what I posted?

I quoted the eye witness account, by the officer who was next to him.

If you doubt me, google it.

You may wish to persist in perpetuating a myth, but history doesn't play favorites, however good the yarn.

L


saber964 wrote:*quote="lyonheart"*Hi DDHvi,

Waiting for the general's tent door to open?

At two miles?

This sounds rather fanciful at best; more detail is certainly required before spreading this whopper.

In all the hundreds of books on the American Civil War I've read, I've never come across anything even close to this.

Now the experienced Union general John Sedgwick [West Point class of '37] was shot in hie left cheek May 9,1864 {Battle of Spotsylvania] at a range of 800 yards after telling the soldier in front of him who had ducked down "they couldn't hit an elephant at this range", who then stood, saluted and responded that he had dodged a cannonball that would have taken his head off, so he believed in dodging; the general replied "all right my man, go to your place" [on the ground] being hit just seconds later.

He was mourned all who knew him, including his good friend Robert E. Lee.

I know veterans who used to salute stupid officers in field exercises (who insisted on being saluted everywhere) "Sniper Check, Sir!" until they began to see the light.

L


*quote="DDHvi"quote="Loren Pechtel"**quote="NHBL"*How far away could a crack shot, with the best gun and scope that is Safehold made (or made by Merlin in such a way that it can't be proven by the church to be other than locally built, anyway) reliably kill a selected target? (Not a PICA, just a really, really good sniper)

Long range assination may become important. Of course, the church knows that people can be shot from rediculous ranges now, anyway,*quote]*

I think it's going to come down to the powder rather than the gun. Super long range sniping needs very reliable propellant.

Also, the bigger the bullet and the more powder the longer range you can shoot--ordinary sniper rifles are limited in this regard by recoil. Put too much oomph into the bullet and you break the shooter's shoulder.

snip

*quote*

I once read that in the US civil war, a sniper with a heavy rifle (I think a Sharps), extra powder, and much preparation managed to kill a general at close to two miles range. In something like this, there is always an element of chance: he fired when the tent door was opened - by an aide - but the general was right behind the aide.
*quote*


Actually Sedgwick's last words were "They couldn't hit the broadside of an elephant at this dis-".[/quote]
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Symmyns' 30,000
Post by DDHvi   » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:04 am

DDHvi
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:16 pm

lyonheart wrote:Hi DDHvi,

Waiting for the general's tent door to open?

At two miles?

This sounds rather fanciful at best; more detail is certainly required before spreading this whopper.

In all the hundreds of books on the American Civil War I've read, I've never come across anything even close to this.

Now the experienced Union general John Sedgwick [West Point class of '37] was shot in hie left cheek May 9,1864 {Battle of Spotsylvania] at a range of 800 yards after telling the soldier in front of him who had ducked down "they couldn't hit an elephant at this range", who then stood, saluted and responded that he had dodged a cannonball that would have taken his head off, so he believed in dodging; the general replied "all right my man, go to your place" [on the ground] being hit just seconds later.

He was mourned all who knew him, including his good friend Robert E. Lee.

I know veterans who used to salute stupid officers in field exercises (who insisted on being saluted everywhere) "Sniper Check, Sir!" until they began to see the light.

snip

=DDHv
I once read that in the US civil war, a sniper with a heavy rifle (I think a Sharps), extra powder, and much preparation managed to kill a general at close to two miles range. In something like this, there is always an element of chance: he fired when the tent door was opened - by an aide - but the general was right behind the aide.


You are likely right, given your extent of reading. I like the sniper check bit :lol: !
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd
ddhviste@drtel.net

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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Re: Symmyns' 30,000
Post by Undercover Fat Kid   » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:19 pm

Undercover Fat Kid
Commander

Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:20 pm

I'm having trouble picturing a thousand yard shot with iron sights.

At 500 yards, a black-on-white echo target is the same width as the front sight post on the M16. One year I was having just a crappy day at the range and only achieved 9 hits out of a possible ten at that range. Given a rifle capable of reaching a thousand accurately, I believe I could make such a shot oh, possibly 5 times in ten at best. But that's a high visibility target and a known, measured range with my rifle specifically zeroed to that range. Picking my target out and delivering a shot at such a range would be a lot more problematical under those less than ideal circumstances, with a less than ideal target.

Frankly, two miles boggles the mind. I can't imagine someone being able to pull that off, not cold bore, anyway, and especially without optics.
.
.
Death is as a feather,
Duty is as a mountain
This life is a dream
From which we all
Must wake
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Re: Symmyns' 30,000
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:43 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

Undercover Fat Kid wrote:I'm having trouble picturing a thousand yard shot with iron sights.

At 500 yards, a black-on-white echo target is the same width as the front sight post on the M16. One year I was having just a crappy day at the range and only achieved 9 hits out of a possible ten at that range. Given a rifle capable of reaching a thousand accurately, I believe I could make such a shot oh, possibly 5 times in ten at best. But that's a high visibility target and a known, measured range with my rifle specifically zeroed to that range. Picking my target out and delivering a shot at such a range would be a lot more problematical under those less than ideal circumstances, with a less than ideal target.

Frankly, two miles boggles the mind. I can't imagine someone being able to pull that off, not cold bore, anyway, and especially without optics.


I think that most of those longer shots are pulled off with a scope. It happens with open sights, to be sure. But the percentage of hits would go down drasticly.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Symmyns' 30,000
Post by saber964   » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:33 pm

saber964
Admiral

Posts: 2423
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:41 pm
Location: Spokane WA USA

Undercover Fat Kid wrote:I'm having trouble picturing a thousand yard shot with iron sights.

At 500 yards, a black-on-white echo target is the same width as the front sight post on the M16. One year I was having just a crappy day at the range and only achieved 9 hits out of a possible ten at that range. Given a rifle capable of reaching a thousand accurately, I believe I could make such a shot oh, possibly 5 times in ten at best. But that's a high visibility target and a known, measured range with my rifle specifically zeroed to that range. Picking my target out and delivering a shot at such a range would be a lot more problematical under those less than ideal circumstances, with a less than ideal target.

Frankly, two miles boggles the mind. I can't imagine someone being able to pull that off, not cold bore, anyway, and especially without optics.



Two miles not a chance, but two kilometres, yes. The current world record is 2475m or 2700 yds.
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