Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:Ransom is mentioned as being a member of the ruling triumvirate. I could never find any info expounding on that ruling "class." I assume that its an actual conglomerate political structure of three separate ruling "groups" or "families" rather than the implied number of three "people." But that's an unsubstantiated assumption. Can anyone elaborate with textev?

I'm not sure there is a concise bit of textev to illuminate the Pierre, St Just, Ransom triumvirate. In part because it wasn't a formally constituted triumvirate, it was just the three most influential members of the Committee For Public Safety.

Technically, there was only "Chairman of the Committee For Public Safety, Rob S. Pierre" in charge of Haven. Oscar St Just, the head of Statesec, and Cordelia Ransom, "Secretary of Public Information" were indispensable in keeping Pierre and the CPS in charge. There were other "Secretaries" and "Committee Members" but they didn't have the influence that the major players had; they were basically just political foot soldiers doing the grunt work of keeping Haven pacified.

At various times, the Secretary of Finance, the Secretary of War and others had some degree of power and influence but they were either purged for excess ambition or became marginalized once the crisis in their area of expertise was dealt with.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:Ransom is mentioned as being a member of the ruling triumvirate. I could never find any info expounding on that ruling "class." I assume that its an actual conglomerate political structure of three separate ruling "groups" or "families" rather than the implied number of three "people." But that's an unsubstantiated assumption. Can anyone elaborate with textev?

I'm not sure there is a concise bit of textev to illuminate the Pierre, St Just, Ransom triumvirate. In part because it wasn't a formally constituted triumvirate, it was just the three most influential members of the Committee For Public Safety.

Technically, there was only "Chairman of the Committee For Public Safety, Rob S. Pierre" in charge of Haven. Oscar St Just, the head of Statesec, and Cordelia Ransom, "Secretary of Public Information" were indispensable in keeping Pierre and the CPS in charge. There were other "Secretaries" and "Committee Members" but they didn't have the influence that the major players had; they were basically just political foot soldiers doing the grunt work of keeping Haven pacified.

At various times, the Secretary of Finance, the Secretary of War and others had some degree of power and influence but they were either purged for excess ambition or became marginalized once the crisis in their area of expertise was dealt with.

It's a bit misleading if you are addicted to carrying baggage from other sources...

triumvirate:
(in ancient Rome) a group of three men holding power, in particular (the First Triumvirate) the unofficial coalition of Julius Caesar, Pompey, and Crassus in 60 bc and (the Second Triumvirate) a coalition formed by Antony, Lepidus, and Octavian in 43 bc.

I suppose it can be loosely applied, and that each of the three Havenite entities wield as much actual power as each of the three Roman triumvirates.

Does anyone know what the class and name of the very first ship of the RMN was?

I'm still a bit sad that there isn't going to be a movie. I hope there's a tv series.

How many join me in hoping that RFC would at least make a cameo appearance in an episode?

Anyone think he could play the role of Honor's mentor, Admiral Courvosier? I think he'd make an excellent Courvosier.

cthia wrote:Does anyone know what the class and name of the very first ship of the RMN was?

My first thought was that it would have been the 4 (hyper-capable) frigates purchased by the Manticore Company Ltd that met the sub-light colony ship Jason when it arrived in the Manticore system. (vastly safer hyper travel having been invented in the interval between when the colonists left and when they arrived). I think at least some of their names might have been mentioned in one book or another.

But upon slight reflection I realized that's probably incorrect, because prior to the plague there wasn't a Royal House, and hence the navy wouldn't have been the Royal Manticoran Navy (RMN). So my second thought is that technically it would be all the naval ships still then in service when whatever the original navy was was converted to the RMN. In which case there wouldn't be any single first ship, as all active ships would (presumably) become part of the RMN with the same sweep of the pen.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Does anyone know what the class and name of the very first ship of the RMN was?

My first thought was that it would have been the 4 (hyper-capable) frigates purchased by the Manticore Company Ltd that met the sub-light colony ship Jason when it arrived in the Manticore system. (vastly safer hyper travel having been invented in the interval between when the colonists left and when they arrived). I think at least some of their names might have been mentioned in one book or another.

But upon slight reflection I realized that's probably incorrect, because prior to the plague there wasn't a Royal House, and hence the navy wouldn't have been the Royal Manticoran Navy (RMN). So my second thought is that technically it would be all the naval ships still then in service when whatever the original navy was was converted to the RMN. In which case there wouldn't be any single first ship, as all active ships would (presumably) become part of the RMN with the same sweep of the pen.

Thanks Johnathan. In that case, my question would default to "What's the first warship, name and class, of Manticore?"

I suppose that frigate would be the class.

My brain keeps asking me how the hell the Peeps pulled off towing LACs. Weren't they held by tractor beams?

It seems like translating between bands and decelerating would seriously stress the tractor's hold on a large LAC. I know the Peeps did have problems with it. But I'm surprised that it even got that far. It seems like such a fool hardy idea. I can't imagine Honorverse tractors to be that powerful.

Even Star Trek tractors were used at verrry low speeds, as slow as a farm tractor (yes, pun intended.)

cthia wrote:My brain keeps asking me how the hell the Peeps pulled off towing LACs. Weren't they held by tractor beams?

It seems like translating between bands and decelerating would seriously stress the tractor's hold on a large LAC. I know the Peeps did have problems with it. But I'm surprised that it even got that far. It seems like such a fool hardy idea. I can't imagine Honorverse tractors to be that powerful.

Even Star Trek tractors were used at verrry low speeds, as slow as a farm tractor (yes, pun intended.)

I'm guessing that they didn't even try to hold tractors on them when actually jumping bands.
HotQ says the Peep ships could redline their hypergenerators to bring anything within 6km of their hull with them when they jumped.
So bring the LACs in closer than that, then cut acceleration and then tractors so you're all coasting in formation, and hit the button to initiate the hyperspace jump.
Then you can tractor them again in the next band and resume (careful) acceleration. Though their acceleration couldn't have been that careful if they cannonballed a pressure tank the length of the LACs)


Incidentally RFC has mentioned that Manticore has come up with a variant of that trick if a CLAC supported raid ever goes seriously sideways. If it's not safe for the CLACs to return and pick up their brood, the bigger warships (assuming they can break back across the hyper limit and aren't actively under fire) can drop their wedges and let all the LACs tractor themselves on. Poof, pull the same hypergenerator trick and now everybody's in the Alpha bands. The LACs can detach and fly themselves in formation with the bigger warships until they can rendezvous with the CLACs. (Doesn't work if the system you're fleeing from is in the middle of a grav wave though)

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:My brain keeps asking me how the hell the Peeps pulled off towing LACs. Weren't they held by tractor beams?

It seems like translating between bands and decelerating would seriously stress the tractor's hold on a large LAC. I know the Peeps did have problems with it. But I'm surprised that it even got that far. It seems like such a fool hardy idea. I can't imagine Honorverse tractors to be that powerful.

Even Star Trek tractors were used at verrry low speeds, as slow as a farm tractor (yes, pun intended.)

I'm guessing that they didn't even try to hold tractors on them when actually jumping bands.
HotQ says the Peep ships could redline their hypergenerators to bring anything within 6km of their hull with them when they jumped.
So bring the LACs in closer than that, then cut acceleration and then tractors so you're all coasting in formation, and hit the button to initiate the hyperspace jump.
Then you can tractor them again in the next band and resume (careful) acceleration. Though their acceleration couldn't have been that careful if they cannonballed a pressure tank the length of the LACs)


Incidentally RFC has mentioned that Manticore has come up with a variant of that trick if a CLAC supported raid ever goes seriously sideways. If it's not safe for the CLACs to return and pick up their brood, the bigger warships (assuming they can break back across the hyper limit and aren't actively under fire) can drop their wedges and let all the LACs tractor themselves on. Poof, pull the same hypergenerator trick and now everybody's in the Alpha bands. The LACs can detach and fly themselves in formation with the bigger warships until they can rendezvous with the CLACs. (Doesn't work if the system you're fleeing from is in the middle of a grav wave though)

Gees! No wonder the Peeps had trouble. This is the best in depth explanation I've seen. Though my fingers are still crossed watching each run in my head.

Wait, tractor themselves? The LACs aren't under power while being towed are they?

And can someone give the definitive radius of a wedge. I know it must be in the Pearls somewhere. But the Pearls seem to be hidden inside some stubborn oysters when I search.

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:
Incidentally RFC has mentioned that Manticore has come up with a variant of that trick if a CLAC supported raid ever goes seriously sideways. If it's not safe for the CLACs to return and pick up their brood, the bigger warships (assuming they can break back across the hyper limit and aren't actively under fire) can drop their wedges and let all the LACs tractor themselves on. Poof, pull the same hypergenerator trick and now everybody's in the Alpha bands. The LACs can detach and fly themselves in formation with the bigger warships until they can rendezvous with the CLACs. (Doesn't work if the system you're fleeing from is in the middle of a grav wave though)

Gees! No wonder the Peeps had trouble. This is the best in depth explanation I've seen. Though my fingers are still crossed watching each run in my head.

Wait, tractor themselves? The LACs aren't under power while being towed are they?

And can someone give the definitive radius of a wedge. I know it must be in the Pearls somewhere. But the Pearls seem to be hidden inside some stubborn oysters when I search.

My understanding of the Maticoran variant is that there's no acceleration while tractored. The tractors are just to get the swarms of LACs close enough you don't need to over-strain the hypergenerator. Hyper capable ship drops wedge and coasts; LACs approach, drop their wedge and tractor themselves to the hyper ship's hull. Jump to hyper and everyone detaches and moves under their own power.


An SD's wedge is roughly 300x300 km; that's from an old pearl). Or when using sails I think the sail diameter is also around 300 km. Jayne's RMN volumes gives a Reliant-class BC has having a wedge of 162 km wide (and looks to roughly that long) and confirms that its sail would be 162 km in diameter
A LAC would have a smaller wedge but the exact size isn't, as far as I recall, stated anywhere. And a pinnace or shuttle would have a much smaller wedge. Then a CM or anti ship missile has a wedge around 10x10 km.