Kinetic Strike System

I'm a newcomer to the series,but I just finished reading it and was wondering if the One-use Key mentioned could maybe contain the data necessary to use them,if there's some way of putting such a thing in a EXE file?

Michae wrote:I'm a newcomer to the series,but I just finished reading it and was wondering if the One-use Key mentioned could maybe contain the data necessary to use them,if there's some way of putting such a thing in a EXE file?

I would think that directions a Safeholder could be expected to follow to use the OBS would be fairly short and simple, and that file is notoriously large.

Welcome Michae, thanks for joining us.

I've been thinking about that OBS and I'm thinking that Merlin should systematically increase the technology on his test island out in the middle of the ocean somewhere until he provokes a response from the OBS. He's already got his steam engine trains going, so why not introduce telephony, telegraphy, electricity until they find out what exactly will trigger the OBS. Better to purposely find out on a remote island, than to accidentally do something on Charis.

TBird50 wrote:Welcome Michae, thanks for joining us.

I've been thinking about that OBS and I'm thinking that Merlin should systematically increase the technology on his test island out in the middle of the ocean somewhere until he provokes a response from the OBS. He's already got his steam engine trains going, so why not introduce telephony, telegraphy, electricity until they find out what exactly will trigger the OBS. Better to purposely find out on a remote island, than to accidentally do something on Charis.

The problem with this approach is Merlin suspects the existence of something in the temple, often referred to here in the forums as "dad". This comes from Paityr's family tradition that the archangels will make a return visit at a time corresponding to roughly 20 safeholdian years in advance of the story. It might be a slumbering AI or PICA, or mundane software, but if the Kinetic Strike system detects and actionable violation, and "dad" does exist, it is highly likely to send a notification which could result in "dad" showing up far earlier than the 20 years they currently have to get ready.

As RFC commented in one thread "this is the sort of mistake you can only make once".

ericth wrote:

TBird50 wrote:Welcome Michae, thanks for joining us.

I've been thinking about that OBS and I'm thinking that Merlin should systematically increase the technology on his test island out in the middle of the ocean somewhere until he provokes a response from the OBS. He's already got his steam engine trains going, so why not introduce telephony, telegraphy, electricity until they find out what exactly will trigger the OBS. Better to purposely find out on a remote island, than to accidentally do something on Charis.

The problem with this approach is Merlin suspects the existence of something in the temple, often referred to here in the forums as "dad". This comes from Paityr's family tradition that the archangels will make a return visit at a time corresponding to roughly 20 safeholdian years in advance of the story. It might be a slumbering AI or PICA, or mundane software, but if the Kinetic Strike system detects and actionable violation, and "dad" does exist, it is highly likely to send a notification which could result in "dad" showing up far earlier than the 20 years they currently have to get ready.

As RFC commented in one thread "this is the sort of mistake you can only make once".

I hear you, but they were willing to take that risk with the steam trains and didn't seem overly concerned that they would wake something up. If they were that confident that it wouldn't result in an OBS strike, then why do it at all? So that means they weren't all that confident, but considered the risk worth taking anyway. Now maybe they shouldn't do it in the midst of a war, especially since they are winning they war, but I still say if they are going to continue to advance technologically they should test the new things on that island and not on Charis. And if something wakes up, then they'll have to deal with it. They will have to sooner or later anyway.

TBird50 wrote:
I hear you, but they were willing to take that risk with the steam trains and didn't seem overly concerned that they would wake something up. If they were that confident that it wouldn't result in an OBS strike, then why do it at all? So that means they weren't all that confident, but considered the risk worth taking anyway. Now maybe they shouldn't do it in the midst of a war, especially since they are winning they war, but I still say if they are going to continue to advance technologically they should test the new things on that island and not on Charis. And if something wakes up, then they'll have to deal with it. They will have to sooner or later anyway.

I pretty much agree, but Merlin did his little test on steam prior to Father Paityr's admission to the inner circle at which time they learned that there indeed was a computer in the basement of the Temple. I suspect that this does become a factor for risk taking.

If I were going to crowd the envelop, I think I would wait until the church side is defeated. I'm kinda a one thing at a time sort of guy.

Don

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TBird50 wrote:I hear you, but they were willing to take that risk with the steam trains and didn't seem overly concerned that they would wake something up. If they were that confident that it wouldn't result in an OBS strike, then why do it at all?

At the the time Merlin set up his test "steam civilization" the only thing that violated the Proscriptions in a way that was detectable from orbit -- based on Merlin's knowledge of what Terran Federation Tech was capable of -- was his test "Steam civilization" on an uninhabited island. If the OBS (Orbital Bombardment System) were triggered, the only possible target at that time was his test area.

Since then, Steam has become widespread, and other technologies that might be detectable from orbit has spread into populated areas, so the cost of being wrong, about what might wake up the OBS and cause it to do a detailed inspection and roll back questionable tech, is much higher than when Merlin built is test "Steam Civilization."

Further pushing the limits of the Proscriptions is

a) much more hazardous than when Merlin conducted his test and

b) not necessary at the current time because steam power can meet all of the Empire of Charis' needs until a more permanent solution to the Proscriptions, The Thing in the Temple Basement, The Return of the Archangels and the OBS can be found and implemented.

Weird Harold wrote:

TBird50 wrote:I hear you, but they were willing to take that risk with the steam trains and didn't seem overly concerned that they would wake something up. If they were that confident that it wouldn't result in an OBS strike, then why do it at all?

At the the time Merlin set up his test "steam civilization" the only thing that violated the Proscriptions in a way that was detectable from orbit -- based on Merlin's knowledge of what Terran Federation Tech was capable of -- was his test "Steam civilization" on an uninhabited island. If the OBS (Orbital Bombardment System) were triggered, the only possible target at that time was his test area.

Since then, Steam has become widespread, and other technologies that might be detectable from orbit has spread into populated areas, so the cost of being wrong, about what might wake up the OBS and cause it to do a detailed inspection and roll back questionable tech, is much higher than when Merlin built is test "Steam Civilization."

Further pushing the limits of the Proscriptions is

a) much more hazardous than when Merlin conducted his test and

b) not necessary at the current time because steam power can meet all of the Empire of Charis' needs until a more permanent solution to the Proscriptions, The Thing in the Temple Basement, The Return of the Archangels and the OBS can be found and implemented.

Yeah, and the thing of it is is that no one really knows whether the OBS is set up to operate manually with some sort of command from outside to trigger it or is set up to respond automatically when some sort of threshold is crossed. And if it does require a threshold, nobody knows what it is.

Also, nobody even knows for sure that the thing is fully functional. To be sure we do know that the defensive systems that Owl triggered are in working order, but the rest of it??? A thousand years is a long time...

Don

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Hi Ericth,

Father Paityr's little bombshell was back in AMF, or 894 YoG; we're now down to 17 years, probably slightly less.

If the inner circle isn't inside the temple in a year or two, to find the 'thing in the basement' or OBS controls etc, I'll be rather surprised.

I still think some technology that 24th century federation sensors don't consider a threat, like very carefully shielded 21st or 22nd century used in a new Nahrmahn/OWL way, might get closer or penetrate the temple without triggering a response, but again waiting is far safer.

Then again if Paityr has the key etc with him when he enters too soon, they might trigger a response from something else still waiting ~15-16 years, though I doubt that's what RFC has planned out.

L

ericth wrote:

TBird50 wrote:Welcome Michae, thanks for joining us.

I've been thinking about that OBS and I'm thinking that Merlin should systematically increase the technology on his test island out in the middle of the ocean somewhere until he provokes a response from the OBS. He's already got his steam engine trains going, so why not introduce telephony, telegraphy, electricity until they find out what exactly will trigger the OBS. Better to purposely find out on a remote island, than to accidentally do something on Charis.

The problem with this approach is Merlin suspects the existence of something in the temple, often referred to here in the forums as "dad". This comes from Paityr's family tradition that the archangels will make a return visit at a time corresponding to roughly 20 safeholdian years in advance of the story. It might be a slumbering AI or PICA, or mundane software, but if the Kinetic Strike system detects and actionable violation, and "dad" does exist, it is highly likely to send a notification which could result in "dad" showing up far earlier than the 20 years they currently have to get ready.

As RFC commented in one thread "this is the sort of mistake you can only make once".

JeffEngel wrote:

Michae wrote:I'm a newcomer to the series,but I just finished reading it and was wondering if the One-use Key mentioned could maybe contain the data necessary to use them,if there's some way of putting such a thing in a EXE file?

I would think that directions a Safeholder could be expected to follow to use the OBS would be fairly short and simple, and that file is notoriously large.

It could be a self-executing chain of commands. First the directions for using it,then the other files are related to actually being able to aim and fire the thing. Such things are common on USB sticks in modern computers. I've actually programmed such a thing myself.

Also it mentions that the OBS has a "fully loaded 12 pack" ready to go,before the first strikes. Maybe what's left of it's load could be decoyed into firing off into somewhere where it doesn't make any difference,or better still,firing on the Church,which would be hilarious,if documents could be leaked which would persuade them to push the boundaries as they become desperate?