Hi Don,
I thought I'd posted this last week, but I'll try to remember everything.
Definitely open tubes for the rockets.
Rockets don't work very well with a closed rear end of the tube [all sorts of asymmetric effects], indeed while Newton's third law seems to point directly at rockets and recoiless artillery, 'getting it right' took more than a couple centuries for the latter.
For example, the designers of the "Hajile" rocket assisted landing system in the Admiralty's WW2 DMWD didn't figure out that putting the retro rockets on top of the payload rather than under it provided the same braking power without being affected by the vagaries of whatever it landed on, be it rock or soft earth, that could reflect the thrust and pitch the platform back up or even flip it upside down because some part of the surface was harder or softer than the rest.
The designers may have been influenced by all the period science fiction pictures including the Flash Gordon movies, that showed the rockets on the bottom of the spaceships, because the artists were just using common sense after all.
You can see 'Hajile' working quite well in the soviet propaganda films of their airborne troops from the 1960's with such vehicles as the ASU-57 and BMD in the 1970's, but you probably know now where they got the idea from.
Launching ICBM's from non-vented concrete tubes in the ground was a real pain until they found various ways around the problem.
A thousand yard direct range is about the maximum to be expected for rockets given Safehold's current tech, even from an anchored ship [which is what the original problem was IIRC], with a high RoF needed to generate a good hit probability in the limited time.
Switching out some of the muzzle loaders for breechloaders gets into the 'new wine in old bottles' quandary, but despite the probable current production limits, might still be the simplest solution.
Another might be to have galleons carry a steam launch or two replacing half of the ships boats, and armed with a light short 'pedestal mounted' 4" gun, which being faster than the screw galleys, could keep them at bay when it wasn't punching their hulls full of holes, besides neutralizing them by destroying their rudders etc.
I find it very interesting that the HMS Warrior, very similar to the ICN's HMS Dreadnought, also had an unprotected rudder etc.
One wonders if HFQ's naval battle was based on some of RFC's war-gaming experience, or just applying some of it to the book's unique situation.
If the 6" breech loaders have a RoF of 12-15 seconds, several could indeed give the screw galleys a very hard time.
L
[quote="n7axw"][quote="lyonheart"]Hi Don,
Isn't thread drift fascinating if not fun?
Regarding defending galleons at anchor; the screw galleys have a maximum speed of 8 knots for up to 40 minutes, a velocity of 11.7333 feet per second or some 255 seconds to cover the last 1000 yards to the ship although a target ~56-60 mils wide at 1000 yards ought to be easy to hit with its 8-10" gun, so shooting back may be moot.
There could be a COW 37mm type gun [1.5 lb shot] with a 5 round clip [RoF 90 RPM] as mounted on some WWI airplanes although 1-3 pounders seem far too light to be effective; ore a recoiless Davis gun in 1.57"/2lb, 2.45"/6lb, 3"/12lb sizes, the latter used by the USN for ASW in WWI, or a tube type rocket launcher with a couple of dedicated loaders firing from the ship's fighting tops.
At anchor, the sails are furled so they're not in the way, and in action fighting sail is out of the way of the lower 'fighting top, while the topmost has no such restrictions in the first place of course.
The Davis recoiless gun worked by firing a weight equal to the shell in the opposite direction made up of lead shot and grease, later it was redesigned so the steel case was ejected rearward as well as clearing the breach for the next round.
I suspect the upper fighting top could have 4 mounts for a pair of Davis guns or rocket tube launchers while the lower could have 6 or 8 mounts for 3-4.
Because the angle to the screw galley might be too acute, the shell might require a spike to keep it from ricocheting off the deck, even if that complicates loading.
L
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Hi Lyonheart,
Yep. It is fascinating, although this thread really hasn't drifted very far.
Maybe your idea works, although I've sort of come to think that the best defense might be waving a white flag...
With the rockets in tubes, I take it that one end is closed to prevent the thrust from torching anything in its rear?? Or perhaps to aim??
What you would get by putting the stuff in the tops to provide angle over the front castle of the screw galley?
Of course that only works as long as you are at anchor. In the event of a situation where the galleons are trying to get away, full sail would be set. I'm thinking of Abhaht's ssquadron here in the narrows.
A couple more thoughts come to mind. First, changing out some of those thirty pounders on the galleon for the same guns that a Rottweiler has would have to be a very unpleasant experience for the galleys. Given size and weight, you'd probably have to give up two old style cannon for each rifled cannon you gained. But I bet the exchange would be worthwhile. And a stern chaser could give a pursuing galley a very long day.
The other thought that comes to mind is that the screw galleys are a limited threat. They were able to operate as they did in an enclosed bay under conditions so calm that the galleons were having difficulty making way. Under normal blue water conditions, the galleys can't successfully operate and are thus not a threat.
It would be interesting to hear what the rest of you guys think of putting those wire wound rifled cannon on the older style war galleons, though. Maybe 2 or perhaps 4 on each side with at least 1 stern chaser... If it can be done, it's obviously worthwhile, but is it doable?
Don
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