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Persistence of Language?

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Re: Persistence of Language?
Post by Charybdis   » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:29 am

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evilauthor wrote:
ChronicRder wrote:Maybe this was mentioned in an earlier page, but I'd like to know where some of these words on Safehold come from. For example, it seems like Western European impressions make up the bulk of the language on Safehold. Somehow they came up with Jihad instead of crusade, but I can get over that. That one that throws me for a loop in the random Asian (specifically Japanese words/concepts) that appear, like the Japanese words Kyousei hi or surgoi kasai.

I'm bothered by that because Kyousei hi and surgoi kasai sound so out of place. At least Merlin's katana and wakazashi make a certain amount of sense because he introduces them to the Japanese culture from OWL's database. Kyousei hi and surgoi kasai have been around since the Day of Creation for these people and that just looks and sounds odd, out of place, and flat out wrong compared to the rest of their universal language.


You're right. Those words do sound like they don't belong. And that's EXACTLY why they were used.

They're exotic. They're nothing any mortal would use or conceivably invent. And they're used as names for an utterly supernatural, nay, DIVINE creatures than no mortal should ever have contact with. Why should such things have mundane, everyday names? The very exoticness of the name highlights their supernatural nature.

And no doubt, some unknowable number of generations later, theologians will argue that these words are even the proper pronunciations or spellings because mere mortals are simply incapable of creating the TRUE pronunciations.

Excellent point - and ever so true! Theologians ARE the bane of faith (IMHO). Just saw where one said that the Christmas song "Mary Did You Know" was heretical because ... :?

Safehold was safe for those centuries because the CoGA shortened all non-Orthodox theologians by a head. Of course any songs were also subject to have their composers equally given short-shrift! :roll:
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Re: Persistence of Language?
Post by cralkhi   » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:54 pm

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Silverwall wrote: One thing that would really challenge the church is the writ being transcribed into these local dialects rather than Angelic (English) similar to the chalenge to the catholic church when the various reformers started translating the bible from latin into the various native languages such as english, flemish, german or french.


Well, IIRC that only became an issue because it was being translated based on the (pre-existing) different beliefs of the Reformers.

The different beliefs didn't come from the translations.

Silverwall wrote:Good point about the aristocrats but even then it is amazing how fast the language or even the elites changes when the base language changes. It took about 250 years for norman french to be displaced in English courts and the language of chaucer (early modern english) is basically unintelligable because of linguistic drift.


Chaucer is Middle English, not Early Modern.

And I've seen it pointed out that there was more change in the 200 years between Chaucer and Shakespeare than in the 400 years between Shakespeare and us. IIRC this has been attributed to increased literacy. So this might be operative on Safehold.
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