Why are there still Satellites?

Louis R wrote:And, currently, 'geosynchronous' is not the correct usage - you're supposed to insert the correct designator prefix in place of geo. However, it's already becoming common enough as a generic term that I wouldn't be surprised to see it become the accepted meaning in another century or two.

Safeholdians definitely do not have an equivalent for "geo" (

word-forming element meaning "earth," ultimately from Greek geo-, comb. form of ge "earth"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/geo?s=t), since among other things there's only ever been 1 language (Auto-de-fey etc not withstanding) but safeholdian-synchronous-orbit is a bit of a mouthful, especially since there's no synchronousness to be mouthful of, (

C17: from Late Latin synchronus, from Greek sunkhronos, from syn- + khronos time

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/synchronous?s=t )

I wonder if himself realized what a hole he was digging himself into by only having 1 language on Safehold?

Keith_w wrote:Safeholdians definitely do not have an equivalent for "geo" ...
I wonder if himself realized what a hole he was digging himself into by only having 1 language on Safehold?

It's not a hole. They just have a simple and false etymology: it all goes back, in Writ English at least, to God and the Archangels directly. They haven't any basis for comparison to account for what we know is a hodge-podge vocabulary. It'd take information they don't have to so much as frame curiosity.

evilauthor wrote:OWL explicitly has its own remotes and/or satellites. Once such was a communication relay for OWL's comm net that spotted the Hairatha Mill explosion. If a mere communication relay (albeit a stealthed one) can spot a powder mill explosion, then keeping an eye on the weather would be no problem either.

Also, Nimue's Cave has an industrial module. If OWL and Merlin need their own satellites, they can MAKE THEM.

If I'm not mistaken, "SNARC" refers to both the whole system AND individual parts, which include the relays that collect information from the smaller "bugs" - it would make plenty of sense for a mobile relay of such sort to have just as capable of a sensor suite as the bugs, if just to make sure nothing sneaks up on it.

First, I apologize for being a back seat driver in this but I have a few questions.
Taking that there ARE full satellite systems AND that there are all those SNARC's out their, Why, oh why, do those admirals and generals always have trouble with such poor maps? How hard would it be to have the Senjins or other "spies" find "good" accurate copies of them?
Mr. Weber does an awesome and incredible job of making
up this world, I know I could never do it, but some things stand out, like the above. Or the fact of the Iron clad falling into Church hands in Hell's foundation. Did Merlin want the church to have it? That is the only reason I can see for a SNARC not going into the powder room and destructing.
There are other things, but I have to admit, the attention to details that he puts into this series in staggering . . . e.g. them having clam chowder in the middle of winter then explaining they came from cans. Awesome, so when things like above happen I wonder why...

I think just "synchronous orbit" is clear enough without having to make up a Greek prefix for Safehold.

JeffEngel wrote:For that matter, it's possible that no one thought of weather satellites as a military tool at all. They'd've had them for hundreds of years. They help you tell what weather is. It's like worrying about the military applications of dandelions. And when it comes to security in conflict, their experience prior to the Alexandria Strike was the Gbaba, who probably were not hacking weather sats for surveillance.

Interesting thought. If humanity had been at peace for a while before the Gbaba was discovered (the TF really didn't have a navy, just some coast guard equivalent spaceships, until then) then there might well have been no one alive with any experience of human vs human wars.

cralkhi wrote:I think just "synchronous orbit" is clear enough without having to make up a Greek prefix for Safehold.

Orbit isn't even necessary. Fedtech power supplies and antigrav seem good enough that OWL could just permanently park stealthed observers in the upper atmosphere and have remotes go out every once in a while to refuel/recharge them.

Paddydiver wrote:First, I apologize for being a back seat driver in this but I have a few questions.
Taking that there ARE full satellite systems AND that there are all those SNARC's out their, Why, oh why, do those admirals and generals always have trouble with such poor maps? How hard would it be to have the Senjins or other "spies" find "good" accurate copies of them?

Part of that is going to be about encouraging do-it-yourself attitudes - scout-snipers, for instance, will have some role in working out the shape of nearby terrain and/or finding local guides. The more that is done, the more often seijin help could be sneaked in under that cover, but the more it comes right from seijins, the less of that work will be done or the sloppier it will be.

Another factor is avoiding reprisals against innocent locals who "have" to be responsible for what the good guys know are seijin interventions. Excessively accurate and precise maps, available to enemies from the far side of the world, would lead right to that kind of conclusion, and fishermen in the Gulf of Dohlar and its surroundings are too precious an information source (and disinformation vector) to risk that way.

And suspicion isn't always on the enemy side: there's only so much supernaturally effective mapping you can hand over to an Eastshare or an Ahbaht before their sneaky, twisty, overactive minds start worrying that these are beyond traditional seijin tricks and look too much like the gifts of Shan-wei. (And "Well yeah, they come from her satellites!" is NOT a comforting answer!)

Mr. Weber does an awesome and incredible job of making
up this world, I know I could never do it, but some things stand out, like the above. Or the fact of the Iron clad falling into Church hands in Hell's foundation. Did Merlin want the church to have it? That is the only reason I can see for a SNARC not going into the powder room and destructing.

That one's got a huge thread or two on it already, and responses from RFC. Just regarding that and satellite mapping though - Would a satellite map even necessarily show a shifting sandbar in a channel? I don't recall if the water there was shallow enough to show a different wave pattern, much less leave the bottom visible. If not, it may just not be something that could even have been located by those satellites, but even if it were - or located by other surveillance systems and mapped - there are still the problems of putting them in the hands of people on the spot practically, plausibly and without intolerable costs or risks.

The conflict isn't just on a military plane. Charis and Siddarmark can't simply beat and beat and beat people some more til victory and happily ever after. They need to create a Safehold where innovation is a common virtue. They cannot secure that with too much done for them by a seijin, or with wide open minds and cleverness discouraged on the other side. That will bind their hands at time on the military plane, or leave them exposed to sheer bad luck as repeatedly in HFQ. It may not be in detail perfectly satisfying narrative, but it fits the total picture.

JeffEngel wrote:The conflict isn't just on a military plane. Charis and Siddarmark can't simply beat and beat and beat people some more til victory and happily ever after. They need to create a Safehold where innovation is a common virtue. They cannot secure that with too much done for them by a seijin, or with wide open minds and cleverness discouraged on the other side. That will bind their hands at time on the military plane, or leave them exposed to sheer bad luck as repeatedly in HFQ. It may not be in detail perfectly satisfying narrative, but it fits the total picture.

You know, I have been wondering for a few books now if Charis is letting its own native intelligence gathering ability rot away because it's become so dependent on "Seijinns" to get that information for them.

Of course, Nynian and the Sisters of Saint Kohdy are filling in the human resources void where the SNARCs can't go, but they're their own distinct faction.

They may be, but I suspect that their traditional resources were concentrated on their traditional rivals. To whit, Emerald and Corisande.

Harahld would have had even fewer qualms about planting spies on the Church than Hektor, but would probably have been even warier about being caught at it. And _neither_ would ever have attempted the degree of penetration needed to support them through the current conflict. Nor would Nahrmahn, for that matter, although we have no evidence that he tried it at all.

Of the mainland realms, probably only Dohlar would even have merited anything more vigourous than alert factors sending reports back to Tellesburg. What sort of network was emplaced, and to what degree those agents would have stayed loyal after the schism, is still 'need to know'

evilauthor wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:The conflict isn't just on a military plane. Charis and Siddarmark can't simply beat and beat and beat people some more til victory and happily ever after. They need to create a Safehold where innovation is a common virtue. They cannot secure that with too much done for them by a seijin, or with wide open minds and cleverness discouraged on the other side. That will bind their hands at time on the military plane, or leave them exposed to sheer bad luck as repeatedly in HFQ. It may not be in detail perfectly satisfying narrative, but it fits the total picture.

You know, I have been wondering for a few books now if Charis is letting its own native intelligence gathering ability rot away because it's become so dependent on "Seijinns" to get that information for them.

Of course, Nynian and the Sisters of Saint Kohdy are filling in the human resources void where the SNARCs can't go, but they're their own distinct faction.

cralkhi wrote:I think just "synchronous orbit" is clear enough without having to make up a Greek prefix for Safehold.

Well you still want to distinguish between what on Earth we'd call geosynchronous orbits (holding over one place on the planet) and sun-synchronous orbits (where the satellite passes over any given point of the planet's surface at the same local solar time)

So you'd need some modifier, though I guess you could have a modifier only for the later type of orbit.