Next Bolthole devellopment

JeffEngel wrote:

BobfromSydney wrote:The other thing is that people refer to the streak drive like a it's a propulsion system. It's not. The streak drive is a big hyper generator that allows ships to enter higher hyperspace bands, which serves to shorten the 'distance' they have to travel.

Yes... you can use a streak "drive", as opposed to a conventional hypergenerator, to reach hyperspace bands that allow faster apparent (practical) speeds. So, technically, it's not a propulsion system. But so, practically, it may as well be.

Is there any misunderstanding possibly invited by referring to the streak drive as a propulsion system? Is there any clarity gained by the pedantic insistence it it not? Sure, it's right. Woohoo. But when it's technically not a propulsion system and the whole effect of the thing is making you get places sooner, what possible point is served by that insistence?

JohnRoth wrote:

(2) An impeller wedge can be generated by a single set of impeller nodes;

(3) A starship requires two sets of alpha nodes (located in the proper relative geometry) to generate Warshawski sails;

(4) A hyper-capable warship, which requires two rings of alpha nodes, also mounts two complete sets of beta nodes because it's generating a double impeller wedge, one inside the other, as a defense against hostile sensors which manage to analyze the grav differential of the outer wedge to be and also for redundancy's sake;

(5) Most hyper-capable freighters also mount two complete sets of beta nodes as a load sharing and security-through-redundancy measure, since they have to have the power runs and the installations for the alpha nodes, anyway;

(6) LACs, missiles, drones, and forts which are not hyper capable do not require two sets of alpha nodes, nor do they require a second set of beta nodes in order to generate a wedge;
So - you could make a wedge with alpha nodes alone, and some freighters (where redundancy is apparently valued less than extreme economy) do exactly that. (I seem to recall elsewhere mention that freighters built for use exclusively inside the Core tend to be very bare-bones since there is so much sense of safety.)

You could be right, but I didn't read it that way. I read it as simply adding a second set of beta nodes for redundancy, the first being required. See point 4: if the alpha nodes could generate a wedge, warships wouldn't need the beta nodes at all.

JeffEngel wrote:I would think that LAC's and forts at least would have a second set of beta nodes to generate a double wedge for the same security reasons hyper-capable warships do, though the point made there is that they do not need the second set to generate a wedge at all.

I think that depends on the environment. If you get a node failure in hyper you're essentially dead unless you're in a convoy where another ship can call for help: redundancy is good.

Forts and LACs aren't going into hyper, and they're not going to be all that far away from either a repair ship or the CLAC.

JohnRoth wrote:You could be right, but I didn't read it that way. I read it as simply adding a second set of beta nodes for redundancy, the first being required. See point 4: if the alpha nodes could generate a wedge, warships wouldn't need the beta nodes at all.

David Weber wrote: The impeller rings of any military starship mount a total of 24 nodes: 8 alpha nodes and 16 beta nodes. The alpha nodes are mounted at 0, 45, 90, 135, 180, 225, 270, and 315 degrees. The beta nodes are mounted every 15 degrees between the alpha nodes. In terms of size, an alpha node is about three times as large and massive as a beta node; in terms of the generator support required, the difference is more like six times as great, but a beta node provides about half as much power to a standard impeller wedge as an alpha node does. Thus each alpha node provides about 6.25% of a wedge's full power and each beta node provides about 3.13%, so that the alphas and betas as groups each provide 50% of the whole. (Actually, those values are halved for the full power of the wedge, since both impeller rings combine in a full-strength wedge.) The 8 alpha nodes, however, suck up as much mass as 48 beta nodes would, which is the reason beta nodes are used. It is the alpha nodes which contain the Warshawski sail components, though, and a ship cannot generate a Warshawski sail without at least 8 of them. It is possible to run a node at greater than 100% of rated capacity under emergency conditions in order to get back some of the power lost when other nodes are knocked out by combat damage, but this is a risky procedure and not one to be undertaken lightly. Freighters may sometimes carry fewer beta nodes, or even none at all. It is extremely uncommon for a ship to mount no beta nodes, but it is not unheard of, either, since cargo carriers seldom carry the inertial compensators to permit them to make full use of a "full powered" wedge, anyway.

Grashtel wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:You could be right, but I didn't read it that way. I read it as simply adding a second set of beta nodes for redundancy, the first being required. See point 4: if the alpha nodes could generate a wedge, warships wouldn't need the beta nodes at all.

Relevant infodump

David Weber wrote: The impeller rings of any military starship mount a total of 24 nodes: 8 alpha nodes and 16 beta nodes. The alpha nodes are mounted at 0, 45, 90, 135, 180, 225, 270, and 315 degrees. The beta nodes are mounted every 15 degrees between the alpha nodes. In terms of size, an alpha node is about three times as large and massive as a beta node; in terms of the generator support required, the difference is more like six times as great, but a beta node provides about half as much power to a standard impeller wedge as an alpha node does. Thus each alpha node provides about 6.25% of a wedge's full power and each beta node provides about 3.13%, so that the alphas and betas as groups each provide 50% of the whole. (Actually, those values are halved for the full power of the wedge, since both impeller rings combine in a full-strength wedge.) The 8 alpha nodes, however, suck up as much mass as 48 beta nodes would, which is the reason beta nodes are used. It is the alpha nodes which contain the Warshawski sail components, though, and a ship cannot generate a Warshawski sail without at least 8 of them. It is possible to run a node at greater than 100% of rated capacity under emergency conditions in order to get back some of the power lost when other nodes are knocked out by combat damage, but this is a risky procedure and not one to be undertaken lightly. Freighters may sometimes carry fewer beta nodes, or even none at all. It is extremely uncommon for a ship to mount no beta nodes, but it is not unheard of, either, since cargo carriers seldom carry the inertial compensators to permit them to make full use of a "full powered" wedge, anyway.

JohnRoth wrote:
Where do beta-squared nodes fit into this picture? Also, which set of nodes contains the FTL com components?

To get back to the question of whether the spider drive ships can create a wedge: either they've got alpha nodes in the required configuration, or they have another new, unheardof technology to transit wormholes and grav waves. In the first case they can create a wedge. Whether they have intertial compensators is a separate question. In the second case, who knows?

To get back to the question of whether the spider drive ships can create a wedge: either they've got alpha nodes in the required configuration, or they have another new, unheardof technology to transit wormholes and grav waves. In the first case they can create a wedge. Whether they have intertial compensators is a separate question. In the second case, who knows?

Valen123456 wrote:While I doubt they will start rolling whole spider drives for quite a few years, they may create a crude "Spider-tractor beam" to prove the concept and allow them to understand the kinds of signature in creates.

Valen123456 wrote:My best bet on a "Spider detector" is something akin to Sonar or SOSUS, creating a refined gravity pulse that is then distorted by the Spiders Legs where they anchor onto the Alpha wall. Even if this does not create an 'echo' to home in on, it might create enough of a distortion that a series of connected Spider detectors laid out in a grid system, might track it by the distortions it makes as it passes between them (similar to how some spiders track prey around their burrows by feeling vibrations through a ground laid web). The trouble with this approach of course (in much the same manner as mine fields) is that in the vastness of space you cannot easily lay defenses like this on every single path the ship might come in on. However this could be a good first step.

Weird Harold wrote:

Valen123456 wrote:While I doubt they will start rolling whole spider drives for quite a few years, they may create a crude "Spider-tractor beam" to prove the concept and allow them to understand the kinds of signature in creates.

I can't see any reason for the GA to "start rolling whole spider drives" ever. If they can capture a working example, I can't even see them building test-bed examples. Other than stealth, the Spider Drive is pretty much worthless compared to impeller drives. Once the GA figures out that the Spider Drive causes static in FTL comms it won't really have the advantage of stealth either.