Persistence of Language?

ChronicRder wrote:

Keith_w wrote:
Since all the words you mentioned were used in Safehold to refer to things that were close to God, I am sure that it was explained away as being Gods words, which would, of course, include such terms as Rakuri and whatever that big long word that means touched by the power of God.

They were, but that wasn't my point. The point was that the wording didn't sound right. It didn't fit with the fabric of everything else that was going on then or in the present. And please don't anyone start on a mystery-of-faith line of reasoning. The concepts fit and if this were a discussion in our world, outside of Safehold, the wording could fit in an academic discussion. I just wish he'd have found some other name for that concept that would have fit more easily into the fabric of the story. As it is, it seems like a square peg trying to fit through a round hole.

ChronicRder wrote:

Louis R wrote:Why should Chihiro _not_ toss in a few words of his own language, for things that are as outre, to Safeholdians, as the words themselves?

Consistency.

JeffEngel wrote: quote="ChronicRder quote="Louis R"
Why should Chihiro _not_ toss in a few words of his own language, for things that are as outre, to Safeholdians, as the words themselves? /quote

Consistency. /quote
No one on Safehold outside the Angels will know. It's all Writ English to them. And it's in a fine tradition of English stealing vocabulary from any other language as needed, not that anyone on Safehold would ever get that either.

Heck, Chihiro could view this as English's last chance to steal words and his gift to the language to allow it a bit more larceny for old times' sake.

John Prigent wrote:Personally, I just don't care about the occasional words that aren't in 'our English' as rendered on Safehold. I'm too busy enjoying the story to worry whether Japanese-sounding words (or Welsh names) would seem odd to the people in it.

Cheers

John

PS - maybe RFC would like to toss a few words in Swahili into the next book?

ChronicRder wrote:Maybe this was mentioned in an earlier page, but I'd like to know where some of these words on Safehold come from. For example, it seems like Western European impressions make up the bulk of the language on Safehold. Somehow they came up with Jihad instead of crusade, but I can get over that. That one that throws me for a loop in the random Asian (specifically Japanese words/concepts) that appear, like the Japanese words Kyousei hi or surgoi kasai.

I'm bothered by that because Kyousei hi and surgoi kasai sound so out of place. At least Merlin's katana and wakazashi make a certain amount of sense because he introduces them to the Japanese culture from OWL's database. Kyousei hi and surgoi kasai have been around since the Day of Creation for these people and that just looks and sounds odd, out of place, and flat out wrong compared to the rest of their universal language.

It's not these people had a Tower of Babel moment in history where other language(s) would even have a chance to develop. The only reason Kody's Spanish resurfaced was because of a conflict in his re-programming. Kyousei hi and surgoi kasai were put there by the archangels, allegedly. It's irritating!

For the record, I did not mean to imply that I don't like or love the Asian cultural references. Quite the opposite, I hold Oriental cultures in the highest regard, Japan in particular. I just don't think those references/words fit in the fabric of Safehold. The concepts do! The concepts fit beautifully, but the wording doesn't. Plus, given the plethora of names, locations, and everything else RFC is juggling here, I think adding those words goes just a step too far. It potentially puts an already complex series out of reach for some readers (especially in an era where most kids, and a growing majority of adults, in general don't read more than a tweet and you can perish the thought of them doing research!). Hell, even for some dedicated fans of the series, and people that will put in the extra effort to look up references like Kyousei hi and surgoi kasai, it can be a little much.

Keith_w wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:No one on Safehold outside the Angels will know. It's all Writ English to them. And it's in a fine tradition of English stealing vocabulary from any other language as needed, not that anyone on Safehold would ever get that either.

Heck, Chihiro could view this as English's last chance to steal words and his gift to the language to allow it a bit more larceny for old times' sake.

Good point, but usually English stole words on the basis of need, not fancification.

For example - for pants that you wear to bed at night - pajamas, for a note that you spent some money which would be claimed back from someone else - chit, for leaves that you boil and then drink - chai, which then got re-mangled to tea.

ChronicRder wrote:

Louis R wrote:Why should Chihiro _not_ toss in a few words of his own language, for things that are as outre, to Safeholdians, as the words themselves?

Consistency.

ChronicRder wrote:Maybe this was mentioned in an earlier page, but I'd like to know where some of these words on Safehold come from. For example, it seems like Western European impressions make up the bulk of the language on Safehold. Somehow they came up with Jihad instead of crusade, but I can get over that. That one that throws me for a loop in the random Asian (specifically Japanese words/concepts) that appear, like the Japanese words Kyousei hi or surgoi kasai.

I'm bothered by that because Kyousei hi and surgoi kasai sound so out of place. At least Merlin's katana and wakazashi make a certain amount of sense because he introduces them to the Japanese culture from OWL's database. Kyousei hi and surgoi kasai have been around since the Day of Creation for these people and that just looks and sounds odd, out of place, and flat out wrong compared to the rest of their universal language.