Honorverse Hall of Shame

Fox2! wrote:And Sonja, for not having the courage to convict Pavel Young of his actual crimes, and putting him in front of a firing squad.

That's rather unfair for Sonja Hemphill. I'm pretty sure that she wanted to convict Young of every charge and then pull the trigger herself - nothing we've seen of her says she's anything other than a conscientious officer, and she recognised what a blight on the Navy Pavel Young was.

However, she also recognised that, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case, if Young was executed then there was no way in hell that a declaration of war would get through the Lords - Cromarty needed the Conservative Association's votes to do that. Without a declaration, and the freeing up of funds that came with it, the Manticoran Alliance counter-offensive would grind to a halt for lack of money. That would give the Committee of Public Safety time to consolidate power, reorganise the PN and plan a fresh attack taking into account what they now knew of Manticore's real capabilities. The Alliance had to maintain the offensive or lose every advantage they'd won at Hancock and Yeltsin's Star. Hemphill recognised that and came up with a course that would get Pavel Young thrown out of the Navy in disgrace and still let Cromarty get the declaration of war through Parliament.

And then, I think, she went for a scalding hot shower to try to get rid of the stench of what she'd had to do.

Dafmeister wrote:

Fox2! wrote:And Sonja, for not having the courage to convict Pavel Young of his actual crimes, and putting him in front of a firing squad.

That's rather unfair for Sonja Hemphill. I'm pretty sure that she wanted to convict Young of every charge and then pull the trigger herself - nothing we've seen of her says she's anything other than a conscientious officer, and she recognised what a blight on the Navy Pavel Young was.

However, she also recognised that, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case, if Young was executed then there was no way in hell that a declaration of war would get through the Lords - Cromarty needed the Conservative Association's votes to do that. Without a declaration, and the freeing up of funds that came with it, the Manticoran Alliance counter-offensive would grind to a halt for lack of money. That would give the Committee of Public Safety time to consolidate power, reorganise the PN and plan a fresh attack taking into account what they now knew of Manticore's real capabilities. The Alliance had to maintain the offensive or lose every advantage they'd won at Hancock and Yeltsin's Star. Hemphill recognised that and came up with a course that would get Pavel Young thrown out of the Navy in disgrace and still let Cromarty get the declaration of war through Parliament.

And then, I think, she went for a scalding hot shower to try to get rid of the stench of what she'd had to do.

It's a golden example of "the lesser of two evils."

BobfromSydney wrote:Does "doing the honourable thing" absolve Janacek from inclusion in the Hall of Shame?

Reginald Houseman, awful diplomat and even worse economist.

I didn't get the vibe that Houseman was a bad economist. In fact, he was selected for the job because of his mad skills. You just need to keep him on a short leash and not allow him to step out from under the "economist's purview."

Which the Admiral kept trying to do.

cthia wrote:Alistair McKeon nominates himself for the way he treated Honor aboard Fearless before he came around to seeing her as the Skipper. IINM, he later admitted his own shame. I suppose the entire crew follows suit.

I can't remember, was there at least one officer that didn't blame Honor for the Basilisk Station exile?

Webster! He never shared the crew's disdain for Honor. He was her lone source of moral support throughout the entire ordeal that she never really knew she had.

cthia wrote:

BobfromSydney wrote:Reginald Houseman, awful diplomat and even worse economist.

I didn't get the vibe that Houseman was a bad economist. In fact, he was selected for the job because of his mad skills. You just need to keep him on a short leash and not allow him to step out from under the "economist's purview."

Which the Admiral kept trying to do.

It depends on how narrowly you define quality of work as an economist. Houseman's a grand economist if you don't regard as a flaw total blindness to the divergence of human beings from the model rational, self-interested agents of classic economical theory. If you ever have a use for applying economics to the activities of human beings, well then, that becomes a big problem.

Houseman figures that Masadans are one PowerPoint presentation away from being reasonable agnostic traders, and anyone who disagrees is willfully ignorant and/or a terrible warmonger from whom the universe must be saved by the cool thinking of Reginald Houseman.

Nimitz, for being a complete Stinker, of course...

1. Begging for celery

2. being so damn adorable that my feels wanted to surrender!

3. Allowing me to post this snarky comment...!


****
Snark aside, in all actuality, I nominate the entirety of StateSec for being giant P-Holes to Honor!!

Dafmeister wrote:

Fox2! wrote:And Sonja, for not having the courage to convict Pavel Young of his actual crimes, and putting him in front of a firing squad.

That's rather unfair for Sonja Hemphill. I'm pretty sure that she wanted to convict Young of every charge and then pull the trigger herself - nothing we've seen of her says she's anything other than a conscientious officer, and she recognised what a blight on the Navy Pavel Young was.

However, she also recognised that, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case, if Young was executed then there was no way in hell that a declaration of war would get through the Lords - Cromarty needed the Conservative Association's votes to do that. Without a declaration, and the freeing up of funds that came with it, the Manticoran Alliance counter-offensive would grind to a halt for lack of money. That would give the Committee of Public Safety time to consolidate power, reorganise the PN and plan a fresh attack taking into account what they now knew of Manticore's real capabilities. The Alliance had to maintain the offensive or lose every advantage they'd won at Hancock and Yeltsin's Star. Hemphill recognised that and came up with a course that would get Pavel Young thrown out of the Navy in disgrace and still let Cromarty get the declaration of war through Parliament.

And then, I think, she went for a scalding hot shower to try to get rid of the stench of what she'd had to do.

THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

*protectively cuddles Sonja Hemphill*

Dafmeister wrote:

Fox2! wrote:And Sonja, for not having the courage to convict Pavel Young of his actual crimes, and putting him in front of a firing squad.

That's rather unfair for Sonja Hemphill. I'm pretty sure that she wanted to convict Young of every charge and then pull the trigger herself - nothing we've seen of her says she's anything other than a conscientious officer, and she recognised what a blight on the Navy Pavel Young was.

However, she also recognised that, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case, if Young was executed then there was no way in hell that a declaration of war would get through the Lords - Cromarty needed the Conservative Association's votes to do that. Without a declaration, and the freeing up of funds that came with it, the Manticoran Alliance counter-offensive would grind to a halt for lack of money. That would give the Committee of Public Safety time to consolidate power, reorganise the PN and plan a fresh attack taking into account what they now knew of Manticore's real capabilities. The Alliance had to maintain the offensive or lose every advantage they'd won at Hancock and Yeltsin's Star. Hemphill recognised that and came up with a course that would get Pavel Young thrown out of the Navy in disgrace and still let Cromarty get the declaration of war through Parliament.

And then, I think, she went for a scalding hot shower to try to get rid of the stench of what she'd had to do.

roseandheather wrote:
THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

*protectively cuddles Sonja Hemphill*

Honesty demands that I admit that I felt the same way as Fox2!. What's worse, I was very disappointed and ashamed of Sonja.

Until I later realized exactly what Dafmeister pointed out. Then I realized right along with it, that I -- as well as the RMN and Elizabeth's government -- actually owe Sonja a huge debt of gratitude.

Therefore, I nominate myself, seconded by me.
.

cthia wrote:

BobfromSydney wrote:Reginald Houseman, awful diplomat and even worse economist.

I didn't get the vibe that Houseman was a bad economist. In fact, he was selected for the job because of his mad skills. You just need to keep him on a short leash and not allow him to step out from under the "economist's purview."

Which the Admiral kept trying to do.

JeffEngel wrote:It depends on how narrowly you define quality of work as an economist. Houseman's a grand economist if you don't regard as a flaw total blindness to the divergence of human beings from the model rational, self-interested agents of classic economical theory. If you ever have a use for applying economics to the activities of human beings, well then, that becomes a big problem.

Houseman figures that Masadans are one PowerPoint presentation away from being reasonable agnostic traders, and anyone who disagrees is willfully ignorant and/or a terrible warmonger from whom the universe must be saved by the cool thinking of Reginald Houseman.

You naval types overly complicate matters that aren't complicated.

Houseman reeked of the consistent social conceit that drips of its usual vitriol of the self-important... stench of SNOBS!

I always wanted to see them release those bridge recordings to the newsies, exactly as they were presented at the court-martial.

On the right, we see the Hero Of Hancock risk everything to lead the enemy into an inescapable ambush.

On the left, we see a sniveling little wanker run away from the big bad noises.

Nobody would dare to be seen supporting the Chicken Of Hancock.
----------------------
Mrs. Tweedy! The chickens are revolting!