Speculation on the next in the Safehold series

SciFi90 wrote:

Annachie wrote:I'm wondering if Merlin will survive to the next series. Not that anything can hurt him. I wonder if he'll shut himself down and allow a fresh Nimue to take over for the next war.


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It is unlikely that a principal character, dedicated to bringing humans back to a technological level able to fight war in space against the Gbaba, would be removed or replaced in the series. Given the present degree of advancement comparable to Earth's 19th (& early 20th) century, there are many generations of advancement to be covered. Remember that Nimue Alban's generation was defeated by the Gbaba; humanity's survival will require technology exceeding that with which Nimue (Merlin) knew.

well now that we have both merlin and Nimue there is no reason why he couldn't.

as to why he would, it has been plain from the start the cost of fighting this war, necessary as it is, is eating him up. After caleb, sharlean and co have died he might well decide that it can be left in Nimue's hands.

yes they are fairly young and stand a good chance of living for at least another half century, probably longer given the nanotech , but without them to "anchor" him who knows.

though has been said before his friends won't let him go easily and now that he has a "little sister" to help him with his burden, both physical and mental, it is unlikely

Dauntless wrote:
as to why he would, it has been plain from the start the cost of fighting this war, necessary as it is, is eating him up. After caleb, sharlean and co have died he might well decide that it can be left in Nimue's hands.

yes they are fairly young and stand a good chance of living for at least another half century, probably longer given the nanotech , but without them to "anchor" him who knows.

though has been said before his friends won't let him go easily and now that he has a "little sister" to help him with his burden, both physical and mental, it is unlikely

I think that between Nahrman and Nimue they can keep Merlin on track. Since Nahrman reamed Merlin a new one at the end of MTAT, he has been doing better. Then there is Cayleb, Sharleyan and the others. Plus he now has Ahlahnah whom IIRC is a godchild.

I personally expect Merlin and Nimue there at the end to see the destruction of the Gbaba. I can't see Merlin shutting down without witnessing that.

Don

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n7axw wrote:

Dauntless wrote:
as to why he would, it has been plain from the start the cost of fighting this war, necessary as it is, is eating him up. After caleb, sharlean and co have died he might well decide that it can be left in Nimue's hands.

yes they are fairly young and stand a good chance of living for at least another half century, probably longer given the nanotech , but without them to "anchor" him who knows.

though has been said before his friends won't let him go easily and now that he has a "little sister" to help him with his burden, both physical and mental, it is unlikely

I think that between Nahrman and Nimue they can keep Merlin on track. Since Nahrman reamed Merlin a new one at the end of MTAT, he has been doing better. Then there is Cayleb, Sharleyan and the others. Plus he now has Ahlahnah whom IIRC is a godchild.

I personally expect Merlin and Nimue there at the end to see the destruction of the Gbaba. I can't see Merlin shutting down without witnessing that.

Don

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I actually don't expect Merlin to survive. The story is moving towards a moment of sacrifice. The weight Merlin is carrying suggests to me that should he face a decision to "die" in order to save his friends and humanity, he would gladly do so.

That sort of sacrifice is the ultimate gesture of true love. What better counter to the CoGA's demand for vapid works via the Proscriptions than such a sacrifice?

PeterZ wrote:
I actually don't expect Merlin to survive. The story is moving towards a moment of sacrifice. The weight Merlin is carrying suggests to me that should he face a decision to "die" in order to save his friends and humanity, he would gladly do so.

That sort of sacrifice is the ultimate gesture of true love. What better counter to the CoGA's demand for vapid works via the Proscriptions than such a sacrifice?

I suppose it could go that way, although it seems a bit more like something out of Harry Potter than what I've observed of RFC's writing in the past.

Don

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n7axw wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
I actually don't expect Merlin to survive. The story is moving towards a moment of sacrifice. The weight Merlin is carrying suggests to me that should he face a decision to "die" in order to save his friends and humanity, he would gladly do so.

That sort of sacrifice is the ultimate gesture of true love. What better counter to the CoGA's demand for vapid works via the Proscriptions than such a sacrifice?

I suppose it could go that way, although it seems a bit more like something out of Harry Potter than what I've observed of RFC's writing in the past.

Don

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The Apocalypse Troll has every one of Mila's taskforce sacrifice themselves to save a branch of humanity that does not impact theirs in any way. In the Excalibur Alternative the telepathic guards offer to sacrifice their lives so that the humans can kill their mutual overlords. The Rish mother sacrificed her life do that her officers could surrender and live in In Fury Born.

Weber's work is replete with characters' sacrifices.

Rastar's sacrifice to hold the gate so Prince Roger could take the palace.

Andreas Venzouls and Jamie Candles' last stands to buy Honor enough time to escape Tepes.

heck in safehold you have the sacrifice of the entire decoy fleet in OAR so that the colony expedition can escape. More recently in HFQ we have Dreadnought's fight against most of the dolhar navy.

we could go on but the point is made

Looking Into My Crystal Ball -

I see Clyntahn consolidating power by abandoning any pretense of the GO4, getting rid of any one who stands in his way - including Duchairn and Magwair. Possibly after Trynair suffers an "accident" that gives Clyntahn an opening to declare himself dictator.

I see Chohiro as being the last one "in charge" after the War of the Fallen and Schuler being resistant to Chohiro's philosophies, ala Book of Schuler, and setting up the Stone with the Wyslynns as a counterbalance to Chohiro's return plans. And it is Chohiro that set up the 1000 year visit with an avatar, PICA or AI or digital image, of himself, along with the Hamilcar - last surviving fleet unit.

I see the 1000 year visit coming in on the side of the Church under the control or influence of Clyntahn, against Charis with great destruction (OBS) and loss of life initially (sort of a doomsday setup at the end of the next book), but Merlin, in the final book, sacrifices himself to save the day - possibly by using the Stone to activate Schuler's final protective mechanisms in the temple and then the arc ends...

IMO, there is no way Merlin will voluntarily "die" until the Gbaba have been defeated. Just defeating the CoGA does not mean they would be able to (yet) defeat the Gbaba. He has too much vested interest in the outcome now, to just disappear.

Also, I'm trying to remember if Clyntahn has ever left the Temple? I know he was outside for the killing of Dennys (I think), but that was still on the Temple grounds wasn't it? If that is true, that would show an amazing amount of fear/paranoia/weakness/lack of confidence etc. It seems to me that would make it increasingly difficult to govern. Can't you just visualize a bunch of broadsheets about how Clyntahn is "scared" to come out of his cave...??? What a propaganda treasure that could present. It also seems to lend itself to what someone earlier in this thread suggested about just cutting off Zion from the rest of the world. Destroying the semaphore stations seems doable and, at least during winter, would make communications very difficult for them if not outright impossible. Wyvern's I suppose could still fly, but how much info can be strapped to a leg of a wyvern? Clyntahn could holler and scream as loudly as he wants, but if his armies can't hear him... Divide, isolate, conquer.

Wyverns fly, yes, but sooner or later you run out of 'em. Even assuming none of them end up detoured to the soup kitchens.

TBird50 wrote:IMO, there is no way Merlin will voluntarily "die" until the Gbaba have been defeated. Just defeating the CoGA does not mean they would be able to (yet) defeat the Gbaba. He has too much vested interest in the outcome now, to just disappear.

Also, I'm trying to remember if Clyntahn has ever left the Temple? I know he was outside for the killing of Dennys (I think), but that was still on the Temple grounds wasn't it? If that is true, that would show an amazing amount of fear/paranoia/weakness/lack of confidence etc. It seems to me that would make it increasingly difficult to govern. Can't you just visualize a bunch of broadsheets about how Clyntahn is "scared" to come out of his cave...??? What a propaganda treasure that could present. It also seems to lend itself to what someone earlier in this thread suggested about just cutting off Zion from the rest of the world. Destroying the semaphore stations seems doable and, at least during winter, would make communications very difficult for them if not outright impossible. Wyvern's I suppose could still fly, but how much info can be strapped to a leg of a wyvern? Clyntahn could holler and scream as loudly as he wants, but if his armies can't hear him... Divide, isolate, conquer.

Given that the next book is the last in the current arc with the next arc starting a few decades later, I see the following:

- the Church is on the verge of losing the war (the Harchong army is defeated/rebels etc), the allies enter the Temple states and close toward Zion

- the unhinged Clyntahn tries to assume supreme command, maybe kills Magwair and Trynair but Duchairn escapes somehow

- Aivah is transported to Zion and dies in a final battle/sacrifice attack taking Clyntahn (and maybe the Inquisition leadership) out

- Duchairn emerges and using his popularity and network takes charge, sues for peace and agrees to reform the Inquisition etc

- a peace like the Augsburg one in the mid 1500's where each state has the right to choose its religion (Temple or the reformed), some toleration etc

- behind the scenes the various bad guys of the next arc accept this for now to regroup and get even with Charis in tech but prepare to strike when the time is right (for example when the Archangels return supposing some of such know about that...)