Speculation for Nahrmahn' Little Brainstorm?

UTM, for Universal Transverse Mercator grid, is the base system found on general issue topographic maps.

NATO has expanded it into the Military Grid Reference System, which uses letters to designate the smallest scale [i.e. largest] elements in the UTM system, and shortens the strings of numbers in a grid reference to something managable.

EdThomas wrote:What about developing a grid system to overlay on the maps that have been passed down to them using a new unit of measure called the kilomile (thinking of the NATO metric grid, I forget what it's called)? More precise locations for gun and observer gives faster firing solutions which reduces time to "fire-for-effect". This is obviously more important in a fluid situation. Shifting fires should be faster too. Defensive fire reference points could also be pre-plotted. I'm sure there would be more benefits this old redleg is missing right now.

Doesn't Safehold already have the concept of latitude and longitude (introduced by the Archangels no less)? They certainly have the magnetic compass.

And Charis is already doing math to calculate navigational positions, implying they already have numbers attached to latitude and longitude. Grid squares is just a short hop from there because lines of latitude and longitude make (more or less) squares across most of Safehold.

Actually, they're a longish hop if you don't have the notion, and especially the math, of map projection already on tap - the UTM grid is really quite sophisticated in execution even if the principles are pretty straightforward. It's extension into the MGRS is even more so. There's a lot of prep work involved in letting people do fire control with a ruler and a protractor instead of trig and log tables. In addition to the ruler and protractor. You'd still need those.

evilauthor wrote:Doesn't Safehold already have the concept of latitude and longitude (introduced by the Archangels no less)? They certainly have the magnetic compass.

And Charis is already doing math to calculate navigational positions, implying they already have numbers attached to latitude and longitude. Grid squares is just a short hop from there because lines of latitude and longitude make (more or less) squares across most of Safehold.

Personally I would think it would be some sort of pneumatic fire control system for the steam ships.

captinjoehenry wrote:Personally I would think it would be some sort of pneumatic fire control system for the steam ships.

Except the discussion is about all the stuff the COGA is coming up with and all that is basically land based. Personally, I think some of the contributors above are onto something by having Charis use UTM and MGRS. It's something that requires a lot of prep work, calculations, and training, but could be a big force multiplier.

Louis R wrote:UTM, for Universal Transverse Mercator grid, is the base system found on general issue topographic maps.

NATO has expanded it into the Military Grid Reference System, which uses letters to designate the smallest scale [i.e. largest] elements in the UTM system, and shortens the strings of numbers in a grid reference to something managable.

Hi Dobriennm,

Welcome to the forums and please enjoy your favorite simulated beverage on the simulated forum.

We've seen preregistered artillery concentrations and adjusted fires, but not a true 'Time on Target' capability, so it or some other more flexible indirect fire techniques may be in the offing.

L

dobriennm wrote:

captinjoehenry wrote:Personally I would think it would be some sort of pneumatic fire control system for the steam ships.

Except the discussion is about all the stuff the COGA is coming up with and all that is basically land based. Personally, I think some of the contributors above are onto something by having Charis use UTM and MGRS. It's something that requires a lot of prep work, calculations, and training, but could be a big force multiplier.

Louis R wrote:UTM, for Universal Transverse Mercator grid, is the base system found on general issue topographic maps.

NATO has expanded it into the Military Grid Reference System, which uses letters to designate the smallest scale [i.e. largest] elements in the UTM system, and shortens the strings of numbers in a grid reference to something managable.

saber964 wrote:The last generation of the USN's range finders and keepers were mechanical analog computers and used no electricity. These computers were very accurate IIRC they could fire a round into a target 100 ft across at a range of 15 miles and place a 9 round broadside within a football field at the same range. When the USN recommissioned the USS New Jersey the USN had to replace all of its targets after one gunex at San Clementie Is. Gunnery range according to one story I heard the New Jersey direct hit on a M48 tank and the largest chunk they could ID was breach of the main gun.

During WWII's Operation Goodwood the British with naval support in the form of 14 & 15" guns landed directly on top of dug in Panzer IVs,Vs & VIs with a number just disappearing.
The German officer in charge of the defence stated it was the most harrowing experience of the War for him watching the accuracy of these big naval guns landing on his front positions. In one instance he saw a Tiger just tossed up into the air from a near miss and flipped completely over.
The accuracy was due to the coordination of the FOB and being able to communicate the fall of shot.

So for me I think it might be something in the form of better communication in reporting the fall of shot; they already have the fundamentals and with smokeless powder they will be able to better see.

Just for the record Hans Von Luck (the German officer) survived the war and went on to lecture at Sandhurst on defensive tactics.

Hi there, new to the forums, but reading this one we are looking at all sorts of new ideas. So how about a sidestep for existing Safehold artillery idea.

We know that there are Time fuzes already in play, and it's too late for me to quote each one, but so far I believe there are illumination rounds with Time fuzes? So they understand packing other materials then just High Explosive.

Now jumping over to the ammo side of the Safehold house, they have the personal mines (Claymore, bouncing Bettys, etc)Again I apologize for not using the book names.

Is it really that far a leap to have Artillery delivered mines?
1.It would take a new assembly line for making these rounds. Nothing our favorite islanders don't have access to already;

2.It would really allow the inferior numbers the ICA to deal with the large Harchong army by using tactics vice brute force.

3. It would also mitigate movement and deny/protect defensive flanks, thus making the Harchong army move into the cleared zones of fire where they can be dealt with with possibly local superiority.

So instead of new idea, maybe just another adaption of what the ICA already has access too? And this could be a brainstorm that doesn't really impact the introduction of a new, and more expensive, weapon system.
So basically just a quick tweek.

Just my 2 cents.


Btw Oct really needs to hurry up and get here for the next book.

There are two things that immediately came to my mind when I read through this thread and the responses:
Rocket-assisted projectiles (for significantly increased range).
Projectiles containing bomblets / artillery-delivered mines.
Seems to me that in fighting the Mighty Host of God, you want to keep them at arm's length for as long as possible... Bloody them (and begin disrupting their morale and formations) well before they can even consider firing back.

I watched the training clips and was reminded that knowing where the battery is to a visible landmark can be used by an independent observer that also knows this information to give accurate targeting information via map location prior to inception of bombardment. Then you get into tweaking (up this, down that, left/right the other).

It seems obvious after having it pointed out...duh

Thanks for the pointer. I just love these little chats!

Dan