Gunpowder

It occurred to me after finishing the last book that it might be useful to do something about the CoG's gunpowder production. Given the issue of supplying the mighty host, perhaps deliberately blowing up some munition shipments where only bad guys could possibly be blamed? Would seem like a crucial issue in approaching military events.

EricSteeseOlyWA wrote:It occurred to me after finishing the last book that it might be useful to do something about the CoG's gunpowder production. Given the issue of supplying the mighty host, perhaps deliberately blowing up some munition shipments where only bad guys could possibly be blamed? Would seem like a crucial issue in approaching military events.

Well, I did suggest something on those lines some while ago.
Such as the occasional "convenient" magazine explosion on an NoG warship (A la HMS Bulwark and USS Maine)
Or in the various powder mills.

I did also suggest targeting the products of the most productive mill so that Clyntahn's paranoia would be looking for scapegoats.

Some of that was used in the Lock explosion and the "sifting" of the adjacent town leading to the appearance of Diallyd Mab


(Anyway, welcome aboard!)

chrisd wrote:

EricSteeseOlyWA wrote:It occurred to me after finishing the last book that it might be useful to do something about the CoG's gunpowder production. Given the issue of supplying the mighty host, perhaps deliberately blowing up some munition shipments where only bad guys could possibly be blamed? Would seem like a crucial issue in approaching military events.

Well, I did suggest something on those lines some while ago.
Such as the occasional "convenient" magazine explosion on an NoG warship (A la HMS Bulwark and USS Maine)
Or in the various powder mills.

I did also suggest targeting the products of the most productive mill so that Clyntahn's paranoia would be looking for scapegoats.

Some of that was used in the Lock explosion and the "sifting" of the adjacent town leading to the appearance of Diallyd Mab


(Anyway, welcome aboard!)

Well, I did think it was quite obvious. My memory is that the Confederacy had one major gunpowder facility during the Civil War and always wondered what if that had been destroyed by accident or enemy action.

In terms of "accidents" on the canals, that would seem to create major logistic issues. Might find out in a couple of years or so. Regards.

I wonder why the Empire has no kind of "Special Forces"! Put them on a small, fast ship. Land at the enemy coast, blow up a powder mill, a shipyard, a important Bridge or most important, a Gold Transport of the church and disappear after that. I know, it would be maybe look bad in the eye of the public, but it would be effective.

Maldorian wrote:I wonder why the Empire has no kind of "Special Forces"! Put them on a small, fast ship. Land at the enemy coast, blow up a powder mill, a shipyard, a important Bridge or most important, a Gold Transport of the church and disappear after that. I know, it would be maybe look bad in the eye of the public, but it would be effective.

FAQ's, page 2, "When is Merlin going to introduce the concept of Special Forces to Charis? (Asked Thu Nov 01, 2012)"

The key problem in this instance is likely to be the reprisals launched against the residents nearby, who are too likely to end up blamed for the sabotage. Another issue is likely to be speed: unless the target is near the water, you'd have a hard time getting to it and back without triggering alerts that will at least make getting out hard. And if you don't trigger alerts, the blame's that much more likely to land on the locals. Take the rescue of Irys and Daivyn as an example of this sort of raid - not for sabotage, but for similar penetration anyway - and how it suffered a lot of casualties, made it out eventually almost as a matter of luck, and took a seijin besides.

Beyond that, many such things can be done by cavalry raids that don't suggest local collusion at all. The ones near blue water get marine raids. The ones up brown water get fingers-crossed marine raids if they're that crucial - or they get Delthak.

If anybody has seen the documentaries on firework manufacturing or visited the Dupont historic site outside Wilmington, DE, you will see the equivalent-to-Safehold tech for gunpowder manufacturing. Sheds with 3 solid walls and a minimal, blow-out wall in a 'safe' direction. This is based upon known risks not caused by enemy action, just human and random chance.

From "By Schism Rent Asunder" (BSRA) pg 569 - Merlin musing:

There were times—many of them—when Merlin had felt severely tempted to use the sensors' self-destruct capability to remove Hektor from the equation once and for all. The remotes had been designed to be capable of working together with their clones to destroy specifically targeted circuits in enemy installations with their incendiary/shaped-charge "suicide pills," ..."

I could see this in the "barrel filling" or for a more complete destruction, waiting for a wagonload and a little judicious 'help' for a big bang!

However, I think our illustrious MWW looks upon this as too much of a cop-out and 'deus ex machina' for him to use. Add the fact that the killed are non-military and I doubt if we will see it.

Charybdis wrote:From "By Schism Rent Asunder" (BSRA) pg 569 - Merlin musing:

There were times—many of them—when Merlin had felt severely tempted to use the sensors' self-destruct capability to remove Hektor from the equation once and for all. The remotes had been designed to be capable of working together with their clones to destroy specifically targeted circuits in enemy installations with their incendiary/shaped-charge "suicide pills," ..."

I could see this in the "barrel filling" or for a more complete destruction, waiting for a wagonload and a little judicious 'help' for a big bang!

However, I think our illustrious MWW looks upon this as too much of a cop-out and 'deus ex machina' for him to use. Add the fact that the killed are non-military and I doubt if we will see it.

I've said it before in other threads, and I'll say it again here. If Merlin "cheats" in this way to sabotage the Church's war efforts, he'd only DISCOURAGE the kind of innovation that his greater over-all Plan requires. It'd be like killing off the inventors, only instead of killing the inventors, he's killing the fruits of their labor.

After all, why invent newer, better manufacturing techniques and new weapons if you know those nasty unstoppable Seijinn are going to make all your work moot?

Now, things like Green Valley cutting supply lines is a different story. You're not discouraging innovation because the innovators and their products aren't being targeted, nor were they responsible for the strategic brilliance that let supply lines get cut in the first place.

EricSteeseOlyWA wrote:Well, I did think it was quite obvious. My memory is that the Confederacy had one major gunpowder facility during the Civil War and always wondered what if that had been destroyed by accident or enemy action.

In terms of "accidents" on the canals, that would seem to create major logistic issues. Might find out in a couple of years or so. Regards.

The Union also had only one major gunpowder facility. The Du Pont gunpowder mill in Delaware produced the majority of the powder the Union armies used in the war. The irony is that at the start of the war, slavery was legal in Delaware. Had Delaware chose to secede from the Union, all that gunpowder would have been produced for the South...

Acutally, there was more than DuPont.

One of the more interesting ones was in Enfield, CT. Hazard Powder Company owned by "Col." Agustus Hazard. Yes, really interesting name for a guy who made gunpowder. The village (one of several in Enfield) is still called Hazardville and is still there though they haven't made gunpowder there since sometime in the 1920's when the last accidental powder explosing devistated the place-again. At the time it was then owned by DuPont of a subsidary of DuPont

Before, during and after the Civil War, Hazard Powder sold a LOT of powder to the government- any government or to private companies. This is an "arms dealer" after all. Per the history of the company, the powder that was used to bombard Ft. Sumpter had been earlier purchard from Hazard by the State of South Carolina.

The reason I ended up learning about Hazard was genealogy. One of my gg grandfathers worked there for a number of years in the time frame of the Civil War and after. Just one more Irish immigrant who left a job as a millhand in the weaving industry (or canal work or the railroad- the records arn't clear but where he was living when he got married those were the three major employment options) and got into a different job across the CT River. In the 1870 Census, he is listed as "works in Powder Mill"

He ended up with a farm later.

Brigade XO wrote:Acutally, there was more than DuPont.

One of the more interesting ones was in Enfield, CT. Hazard Powder Company owned by "Col." Agustus Hazard. Yes, really interesting name for a guy who made gunpowder. The village (one of several in Enfield) is still called Hazardville and is still there though they haven't made gunpowder there since sometime in the 1920's when the last accidental powder explosing devistated the place-again. At the time it was then owned by DuPont of a subsidary of DuPont

Before, during and after the Civil War, Hazard Powder sold a LOT of powder to the government- any government or to private companies. This is an "arms dealer" after all. Per the history of the company, the powder that was used to bombard Ft. Sumpter had been earlier purchard from Hazard by the State of South Carolina.

The reason I ended up learning about Hazard was genealogy. One of my gg grandfathers worked there for a number of years in the time frame of the Civil War and after. Just one more Irish immigrant who left a job as a millhand in the weaving industry (or canal work or the railroad- the records arn't clear but where he was living when he got married those were the three major employment options) and got into a different job across the CT River. In the 1870 Census, he is listed as "works in Powder Mill"

He ended up with a farm later.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that the Delaware facility was the only source of gunpowder for the Union. But I do believe that it produced over half of the overall total.