Merlin and Nimue

LadyWhirlwind wrote:I think RFC introduced Nimue to get more flexibility storywise, to make it easier to have a PCIA on hand, if necessary.

Also Merlin has changed quite a bit over time, and with Nimue bringing back, he again has someone with her original personality back in play.

In the long term i think that one of them will find his or her end in the war against the Gbaba. The series will end with the other returning to earth and visiting the location of Nimue's old home and shutting down there for good.

I like this scenario. I think it has great possibilities.But look forward to what Mr Weber really has in mind for both Nimue and Merlin.. I have loved series more than any other. Has kept me riveted all these years

DianeSilva wrote:Does anyone think that Merlin will not make it to fighting the Ggaba? Is that why he created Nimue? Seems like the story is setting up that way. Especially if Rayno discovers all about the technology that brought about Merlin and Owl. I hope not. I really like Merlin

Perhaps not in current configuration... I think that the inner circle should make it a high priority to build a PICA for each nation in the Empire to keep a closer eye on things in Tarot, Emerald, Chisolam and Charis (Nimue is in Corsandia) and for several key locations where the battle is likely to be waged next on the mainland.
After that is done, they will have time to download from the Nimue template but, could designate one for each of the personal so far used by Merlin, including one for Merlin himself... This would permit taking the present Merlin off line long enough to download all the memories he has generated so far and then up load to the proper persona.

I also think that OWL and Merlin will come up with a methodology to download people that have no NEAT interface but I have been wrong before.

Of course, each would have to come to the same agreement to work against the CoGA but, I think that they would if provided with the same evidence of Langhorn and team.

I worry that he is carrying too much baggage and could lead to a significant problem. Plus, the new construction will be able to interface with OWL and with the other PICA's.

In this case, I do expect that Merlin will be around to take the fight to the Gbaba... of course, it looks like David Weber is off in the Honorverse so we may have a longer wait to see.

Well, any love-affair/marriage between an immortal and a mortal would IMO end in tragedy for the immortal.

Merlin (or Nimue) would have to face the death of their lover/spouse by old-age while they live on.

By the way, To The Best Of My Knowledge David Weber has said nothing about somehow using the original Nimue's DNA.

In fact, he had Merlin talking about the original Nimue never thinking about having children and that he could never have children.

Prior to the Merlin statement, there was plenty of people here speculating on the possibility of using the original Nimue's DNA for Merlin to have children.

Even before the Merlin statement, I considered it unlikely that Merlin would have access to the original Nimue's DNA.

While it is possible that the Terran Federation Navy kept sperm/eggs of TFN personnel in "cold-storage", those would likely be stored planet-side not on-board starships.

The original Nimue's eggs were likely left on Earth.

Oh, I like the idea but don't think it's possible.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Drak,

I think we got some signals that Nynian was extremely impressed by and liked Merlin very much, and he thought she was the most beautiful woman he'd ever seen as well as one of the smartest and cleverest.

Not a bad start.

I've posted before that General Gahrvai might visit Nimue after duty hours some night, perhaps due to some dutch or Irish courage, but't might also lead to his induction into the inner circle at some point sooner than previously planned.

Didn't RFC have some comment how Merlin might be able to synthesize or replicate Nimue's DNA and be able to technically sire children?

So Nimue Alban could meet the Gbaba with quite a progeny by the time humanity is ready this time.

Revenge then would be even more sweet even if Merlin didn't make it.

L

DrakBibliophile wrote:That idea has come up several times and is likely how Merlin would handle the fact that he is immortal.

while i agree it is unlikely that nimue had eggs frozen and that they came with her to safehold.

She was deeply loved by both admiral's Pei and Shan-wei, very much the daughter they wished they they had taken the time to have.

is it possible they took a DNA sample, hair etc and kept it in stasis?

of course if they had it was probably stored in Alexandria and got vaporized along with the entire enclave.

still there are ways it can be done, but mentioning them this late might be seen as excessive hand wavium.

Nimue's DNA sequence, and likely mitochondrial sequence, is in OWL's database. Remember, they were able to trace the ancestry of Cayleb and Paityr to specific colonists.

Given that they have whole body regeneration if needed and today we can make a cell live with completely synthesized DNA, there would be no problem recreating Nimue as physically human. The only thing missing would be the memory of being called into operation ARK - basically, the gap Merlin has.

The question that might come up would be which of the three memory records would you use? My thought would be the backup copy plus the background information that Merlin prepared.

It would not surprise me if Olivia and Narhman had not already discussed this, given her question to Merlin.

So, given it is entirely possible, would you do it now or when the Gbabba are near defeat?

Hildum wrote:Nimue's DNA sequence, and likely mitochondrial sequence, is in OWL's database. Remember, they were able to trace the ancestry of Cayleb and Paityr to specific colonists.

Given that they have whole body regeneration if needed and today we can make a cell live with completely synthesized DNA, there would be no problem recreating Nimue as physically human. The only thing missing would be the memory of being called into operation ARK - basically, the gap Merlin has.

The question that might come up would be which of the three memory records would you use? My thought would be the backup copy plus the background information that Merlin prepared.

It would not surprise me if Olivia and Narhman had not already discussed this, given her question to Merlin.

So, given it is entirely possible, would you do it now or when the Gbabba are near defeat?

Right now it's kinda handy for Merlim and Nimue to be as indestructable as they are...

Don

-

Hildum wrote:Nimue's DNA sequence, and likely mitochondrial sequence, is in OWL's database. Remember, they were able to trace the ancestry of Cayleb and Paityr to specific colonists.

There's a difference between storing enough DNA information to uniquely ID someone, and storing the entirety of their DNA enough to create a whole new clone.

Heck, IIRC, modern DNA identification doesn't look at every gene on every chromosome. It only looks for specific DNA markers. I don't imagine 24th century DNA identification would be much different.

Medical records might be different, but why would OWL have Nimue's medical records? Or ANYONE's medical records?

Also, I think Weber mentioned that Fed tech isn't up to recreating human beings from digital DNA records. If it were possible, there would have been no need to transport people in cryo from Earth. They could have used that same volume and mass to just carry copied personalities for whom new organic bodies could be constructed at whatever new colony was founded. Or just grow new colonists from scratch and have the first generation of Adams and Eves be raised by robotic servitors.

How likely is it that there is ANY sample of Nimue's DNA on Safehold or in some installation/ship stored in the Safehold system.
Using such a sample to effectivly clone Nimue could be done IF there was such a sample (which I doubt) but then you would still have to wire the clone up with TF tech and transfer her recorded mind to the clone. Or you could make the clone and raise it without transfering anybody's mind- just a sort of normal human child.
Doesn't see realistic for Safehold, now or in it's future unless you are going to head in the direction of the StarWars Storm Troopers.

No. It may become possible one day, but that does not mean it should be done.

The idea runs into a rather serious ethical dilemma.

A clone is NOT the same as a Pica.

A PICA would not have a personality without someone's downloaded memories. A clone, especially one grown from babyhood, could develop it's own personality.

You need to decide, in-universe, if a clone will have the same legal rights and responsibilities as a natural human. If it does, it is a unique person. Giving it someone else's memories means taking away the original person's right to it's own personality.

If, one other hand, you decide in-universe, that clones do not have the same legal rights and responsibilities as a natural human... Then what are they? Back-up bodies? Spare parts? Slaves? What?

Maybe you could force-grow the clone in a lab and wake it up with the memories of the original, but it would feel too much like what was done to the Adams and Eves.

Hildum wrote:Nimue's DNA sequence, and likely mitochondrial sequence, is in OWL's database. Remember, they were able to trace the ancestry of Cayleb and Paityr to specific colonists.

Given that they have whole body regeneration if needed and today we can make a cell live with completely synthesized DNA, there would be no problem recreating Nimue as physically human. The only thing missing would be the memory of being called into operation ARK - basically, the gap Merlin has.

The question that might come up would be which of the three memory records would you use? My thought would be the backup copy plus the background information that Merlin prepared.

Besides which, PICAs are vastly superior to organic human bodies anyway. The only thing they can't do better is produce biological children.