Who else has a 'Key of Schuler' or something like it?

RFC has dropped a few hints that other 'Keys' like the Key of Schuler may exist.

Is that why Duchairn is not cowed by Clyntahn? There is no force in Zion other than the Inquisition's Schulerites. How can he be confident? Possibly he has a key. If the real Schuler returned, obviously his PICA. Clyntahn's power would evaporate like smoke.

What do you think my peers?

martin wrote:RFC has dropped a few hints that other 'Keys' like the Key of Schuler may exist.

Is that why Duchairn is not cowed by Clyntahn? There is no force in Zion other than the Inquisition's Schulerites. How can he be confident? Possibly he has a key. If the real Schuler returned, obviously his PICA. Clyntahn's power would evaporate like smoke.

What do you think my peers?

There's a popular theory that Clyntahn's man to assassinate Duchairn when the time comes is Major Phandys, and that Major Phandys is in fact Duchairn's man. I'm not remotely confident this is so, but I figure, what the heck, I'll mention it since it is sure to come up anyway.

He is the man making the jihad work, him and Magwair, so Clyntahn will have to be an idiot to kill him. That may make him confident, but it's assuming more rationality and/or firm contact with reality in the face of fury than is at all appropriate when thinking of Zhaspyr Clyntahn.

Otherwise, Duchairn's got his sense of right and wrong and is going to do the right thing as he sees it and as he can whether or not he's going to die from it. Moral conviction gives him big brass ones. So he may appear confident just out of that, without anything to protect him.

I doubt it's some holy relic. There can't be many of them and I think it would have had some clear-ish reference by now. It's a bare possibility, I suppose.

JeffEngel wrote:

martin wrote:RFC has dropped a few hints that other 'Keys' like the Key of Schuler may exist.

Is that why Duchairn is not cowed by Clyntahn? There is no force in Zion other than the Inquisition's Schulerites. How can he be confident? Possibly he has a key. If the real Schuler returned, obviously his PICA. Clyntahn's power would evaporate like smoke.

What do you think my peers?

There's a popular theory that Clyntahn's man to assassinate Duchairn when the time comes is Major Phandys, and that Major Phandys is in fact Duchairn's man. I'm not remotely confident this is so, but I figure, what the heck, I'll mention it since it is sure to come up anyway.

He is the man making the jihad work, him and Magwair, so Clyntahn will have to be an idiot to kill him. That may make him confident, but it's assuming more rationality and/or firm contact with reality in the face of fury than is at all appropriate when thinking of Zhaspyr Clyntahn.

Otherwise, Duchairn's got his sense of right and wrong and is going to do the right thing as he sees it and as he can whether or not he's going to die from it. Moral conviction gives him big brass ones. So he may appear confident just out of that, without anything to protect him.

I doubt it's some holy relic. There can't be many of them and I think it would have had some clear-ish reference by now. It's a bare possibility, I suppose.

You're probably right about Duchairn. But I think the stage is set for Schuler, the real Schuler to have a part to play. Wylsynns trusted him to be different from the book with his name. St. Kody trusted him. Maybe misplaced trust, but as Nymue said we really don't know what happened when Kody went to see him.

martin wrote:RFC has dropped a few hints that other 'Keys' like the Key of Schuler may exist.

Is that why Duchairn is not cowed by Clyntahn? There is no force in Zion other than the Inquisition's Schulerites. How can he be confident? Possibly he has a key. If the real Schuler returned, obviously his PICA. Clyntahn's power would evaporate like smoke.

What do you think my peers?

It has been made quite clear there were no other PICAs brought from Earth. Nor is it likely that any would have been constructed later.

Clearly there are other TF devices about, such as the wands. However, RFC has not been using them much, even for the devices he has already exposed, such as the verifier, even when their use could have been helpful. Duchairn is not likely to have any, as there is nothing in his history exposed so far which would indicate he would have something.

HFQ mentioned "preparations" Duchairn has made, he got some unexpected information in a bump pass in the hall, and Schueler was not the only one on the command crew paranoid enough to leave a High Tech Argument behind.

It's not impossible.

From a Doylist perspective, I think the Key was introduced because Weber realized that it or something like it may well exist, and could end the story early. Putting it in Paityr's hands answers the question of "Why didn't any Angels leave a message to the colonists?" and the like while keeping the answer from just activating the Rakurai platform and destroying Charis.

Hildum wrote:

martin wrote:RFC has dropped a few hints that other 'Keys' like the Key of Schuler may exist.

Is that why Duchairn is not cowed by Clyntahn? There is no force in Zion other than the Inquisition's Schulerites. How can he be confident? Possibly he has a key. If the real Schuler returned, obviously his PICA. Clyntahn's power would evaporate like smoke.

What do you think my peers?

It has been made quite clear there were no other PICAs brought from Earth. Nor is it likely that any would have been constructed later.

Clearly there are other TF devices about, such as the wands. However, RFC has not been using them much, even for the devices he has already exposed, such as the verifier, even when their use could have been helpful. Duchairn is not likely to have any, as there is nothing in his history exposed so far which would indicate he would have something.

There is the much anticipated 1000 year return of the Archangels. I'm not sure if there is any mechanism they could use other than by a PICA. Maybe there is, although in HFQ it is revealed that in the TF there were people living permanently within them. Possibly they could return in a form similar Nahmann. If so they would probably be restricted to the temple, but no doubt with control of the bombardment platforms. That could make the 'Real Schueler' an important player.

martin wrote:RFC has dropped a few hints that other 'Keys' like the Key of Schuler may exist.

Is that why Duchairn is not cowed by Clyntahn? There is no force in Zion other than the Inquisition's Schulerites. How can he be confident? Possibly he has a key. If the real Schuler returned, obviously his PICA. Clyntahn's power would evaporate like smoke.

What do you think my peers?

Hildum wrote:It has been made quite clear there were no other PICAs brought from Earth. Nor is it likely that any would have been constructed later.

Clearly there are other TF devices about, such as the wands. However, RFC has not been using them much, even for the devices he has already exposed, such as the verifier, even when their use could have been helpful. Duchairn is not likely to have any, as there is nothing in his history exposed so far which would indicate he would have something.

martin wrote:There is the much anticipated 1000 year return of the Archangels. I'm not sure if there is any mechanism they could use other than by a PICA. Maybe there is, although in HFQ it is revealed that in the TF there were people living permanently within them. Possibly they could return in a form similar Nahmann. If so they would probably be restricted to the temple, but no doubt with control of the bombardment platforms. That could make the 'Real Schueler' an important player.

"I'm not sure if there is any mechanism they could use other than by a PICA."

I disagree. Imagine the impact of a FULLY interactive hologram INSIDE the Vicar's meeting chamber. If Merlin's O.W.L. AI has become as good as it is (HFQ) after just a few years, imagine, for one example, what the unrestricted AI from the flagship could be, even in dormancy for the past centuries. Hamilcar, the "Spirit of the Archangels", untouchable yet visible, present at the beginning and returned now for the edification and instruction of the Faithful!

Charybdis wrote:

martin wrote:RFC has dropped a few hints that other 'Keys' like the Key of Schuler may exist.

Is that why Duchairn is not cowed by Clyntahn? There is no force in Zion other than the Inquisition's Schulerites. How can he be confident? Possibly he has a key. If the real Schuler returned, obviously his PICA. Clyntahn's power would evaporate like smoke.

What do you think my peers?

Hildum wrote:It has been made quite clear there were no other PICAs brought from Earth. Nor is it likely that any would have been constructed later.

Clearly there are other TF devices about, such as the wands. However, RFC has not been using them much, even for the devices he has already exposed, such as the verifier, even when their use could have been helpful. Duchairn is not likely to have any, as there is nothing in his history exposed so far which would indicate he would have something.

martin wrote:There is the much anticipated 1000 year return of the Archangels. I'm not sure if there is any mechanism they could use other than by a PICA. Maybe there is, although in HFQ it is revealed that in the TF there were people living permanently within them. Possibly they could return in a form similar Nahmann. If so they would probably be restricted to the temple, but no doubt with control of the bombardment platforms. That could make the 'Real Schueler' an important player.

"I'm not sure if there is any mechanism they could use other than by a PICA."

I disagree. Imagine the impact of a FULLY interactive hologram INSIDE the Vicar's meeting chamber. If Merlin's O.W.L. AI has become as good as it is (HFQ) after just a few years, imagine, for one example, what the unrestricted AI from the flagship could be, even in dormancy for the past centuries. Hamilcar, the "Spirit of the Archangels", untouchable yet visible, present at the beginning and returned now for the edification and instruction of the Faithful!

Or what about a hibernation capsule or 2? is there any in-universe limitation on use of the Hibernation capsules (I don't remember - I do know at least 1 of David's universes has a 6 month rotation rule). Instead of leaving once the war was over and the church restored, the remaining command crew could have taken to their capsules and planned to rotate awakenings periodically to guide the church, with the ability to bring more of the archangels back if needed.

Theemile wrote:Or what about a hibernation capsule or 2? is there any in-universe limitation on use of the Hibernation capsules (I don't remember - I do know at least 1 of David's universes has a 6 month rotation rule). Instead of leaving once the war was over and the church restored, the remaining command crew could have taken to their capsules and planned to rotate awakenings periodically to guide the church, with the ability to bring more of the archangels back if needed.

IIRC, Merlin was wondering about the same option in the same book the Key bomb was dropped (can't remember the title now). He thought that cryopods were never used for periods of time longer than few dozen years - 23? 123? Anyway, he decided that it's unlikely anyone would survive nearly a thousand years in it, and in fact, the command crew would be insane even to think about it (and that's insane by standards of a person who'd grown up in an insane society). So I'm afraid we have to put this possibility to rest.

My guess would be on a Nahrmahn-like stashed personality, maybe of Chihiro, Schueler or both. For out-of-Temple operations, they could have some sort of drone/robot controlled remotely from the Temple. PICA's unnecessary for that.