When Merlin leads the Charge into Zion....

evilauthor wrote:

Expert snuggler wrote:>And what's a "Temple Roomba"?

What cleans the floors in the Temple?

I seem to recall something about low level priests being ritually trained to use the Holy Floor Buffers or something to keep the Temple Entrance Hall nice and shiny, but I honestly can't remember where I read that and none of my recent rereads have come across that passage.

Besides which, if I were an "Angel" programming the Roombas, I'd only have them come out to do their thing when rooms are unoccupied. It prevents them from tripping people up (and also prevents manual theft to boot).

OTOH, given the kind of nanotech maintenance Merlin comes equipped with, the Temple might be using actual nanotechnology to keep the floors dirt free and shiny. Draconian rules against littering would take care of anything too big for the nanotech to eat in a timely manner.

I'm beginning to wonder if nanotech isn't just another word for handwavium...maybe we could use iy to infiltrate the computer in the Temple basement!

Don

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Speculating about 3 unknowns in particular about the OBS and Temple security:
(1) We know Langhorne & Co. were paranoid, but how paranoid?
(2) They would have instructed somebody else to do the “programming” (and in that I include writing both special software and instructions for existing software) – how paranoid &/or obedient was he?
(3) And lastly, how good a programmer was he?

But I think we can rely on RFC to deal with those imponderables.

Also, I think there’s a good possibility that somewhere there is a final, last-ditch, ultimate-emergency, burn-before-reading, back door to the Temple system. Finding that might make a lovely sub-story, possibly centred on Paityr Wylsynn . . .?

As an aside, I refuse to go into the difficulties that might be caused by somebody familiar with one type of computer system having to deal with another one on the fly. Just consider what happens to somebody who only knows the Microsoft systems suddenly faced with Unix!

Weird Harold wrote:

Randomiser wrote:Let's see, you want to give someone extensive training in top secret information, so he will know what to look for, then send him into the most secure location the CoGA has, exposing him to the risk of capture and disclosure of all that info, NTM gruesome death by torture, just to mount a totally speculative recce on the off chance that he might, somehow, manage to pick something up? Does that sound to you like the kind of mission Caleb or Merlin would sign off on?

Why are you so opposed to the idea of training a Safehold Native to recognize and report on TF technology?

It has been stated several times by several people that the investigation does NOT have to be a spy mission and can wait until the Good Guys(tm) have control of the Temple. The Temple Defenses should not react to Safehold natives occupying the Temple, but it would still react to Merlin, Nimue, or SNARCs intruding. They need a Safehold Native with enough knowledge to at least investigate for them In order to know exactly what they're up against. Any information that can be gained is more than they have now.

I am not opposed to having native Safeholders like father Wylsynn and some of the Helm Cleavers walk into the temple, find the way into the control room and set up an op. Wylsynn can be trained to respond to high tech and the Helm Cleavers serve as security and shock troops, perhaps with some of Saint Kohdy's 'tools' to help them do their job.

I will not change my mind about taking out the OBS first and I do think that the inner circle have access to the tech that would permit an aerial assault that could provide an alternative to laying siege to Zion.

I've done more than a little writing of machine language code. Not fun and a little time consuming and very dependent on the particular machine.

I would posit that TF computers would probably be verbally programmed via a hardwired module, witness Merlin being very careful with how he tells OWL to do some of the tasks that he wants done.

Dan Jones

Expert snuggler wrote:>And what's a "Temple Roomba"?

What cleans the floors in the Temple?

Jumping to conclusions, it might be a magical servitor rather than a human janitor.

If so, who would keep track of vacuum cleaners the way someone would keep track of Inquisitorial wands? Kidnapping one would be risky, of course.

That was a great point about not being able to reprogram it safely while inside the Temple.

Try this option out. One of Clyntahn's servants goes out for a wild night on the town. He's carrying or wearing his mystical badge of office that causes Clyntahn's front door to open for him. He falls asleep, maybe a little more deeply than a drunk naturally would, and an OWL remote reverse engineers it. If that's not possible, swap it with a duplicate. The duplicate won't work of course. IT will say it's user error. Give the original to Helm Cleaver.

I like the last bit! Sadly both the badge and the Roomba are not actually in evidence. I would suspect that the TF had finally managed to crack biometrics for ID. Or if it is a lower tech locking system that you draw a holy symbol on the lock pad to get in. Easier to change and nothing material to steal. Or if you want to be sneaky, on really important doors drawing the symbol activates the biometrics, but only the most senior people know that the door will only open for properly inducted people.

Weird Harold wrote:

Randomiser wrote:Let's see, you want to give someone extensive training in top secret information, so he will know what to look for, then send him into the most secure location the CoGA has, exposing him to the risk of capture and disclosure of all that info, NTM gruesome death by torture, just to mount a totally speculative recce on the off chance that he might, somehow, manage to pick something up? Does that sound to you like the kind of mission Caleb or Merlin would sign off on?

Why are you so opposed to the idea of training a Safehold Native to recognize and report on TF technology?

It has been stated several times by several people that the investigation does NOT have to be a spy mission and can wait until the Good Guys(tm) have control of the Temple. The Temple Defenses should not react to Safehold natives occupying the Temple, but it would still react to Merlin, Nimue, or SNARCs intruding. They need a Safehold Native with enough knowledge to at least investigate for them In order to know exactly what they're up against. Any information that can be gained is more than they have now.

I'm not. Once the EoC has control of the Temple the whole inner circle can be properly briefed and do a really good month-long recce, for all I care. I'm just against the spy mission while it's still in enemy hands that a lot of the posters are advocating.

dan92677 wrote:I've done more than a little writing of machine language code. Not fun and a little time consuming and very dependent on the particular machine.

I would posit that TF computers would probably be verbally programmed via a hardwired module, witness Merlin being very careful with how he tells OWL to do some of the tasks that he wants done.

Dan Jones

In that case, it would be fooling the computer into giving you access and not doing anything that violates any security protocols it may have been given which would be the fun parts.

If subversion is similar to conning or manipulating a human, then it requires native-level understanding of how to manipulate members of a "culture" (for lack of a better word).

More than native-level, in fact. Consider Merlin's struggles communicating with OWL, despite being born and raised around TF computers and training with tactical computers, at which she distinguished herself.

Oh dear. The ideal answer is an ethical disaster. Pick some orphaned infant with congenital brain damage that rules out a life on Safehold. Bring him or her to the Cave of Wonders, fix the brain wiring and improve the NEAT interface at the same time. Download Nahrmann later. He or she would be ready for a Temple pilgrimage just in time to head off the Return.

Expert snuggler wrote:If subversion is similar to conning or manipulating a human, then it requires native-level understanding of how to manipulate members of a "culture" (for lack of a better word).

More than native-level, in fact. Consider Merlin's struggles communicating with OWL, despite being born and raised around TF computers and training with tactical computers, at which she distinguished herself.

Oh dear. The ideal answer is an ethical disaster. Pick some orphaned infant with congenital brain damage that rules out a life on Safehold. Bring him or her to the Cave of Wonders, fix the brain wiring and improve the NEAT interface at the same time. Download Nahrmann later. He or she would be ready for a Temple pilgrimage just in time to head off the Return.

Yessss - I think we can maybe explore some of the not quite ideal answers that aren't ethical disasters. I'm certain Our Heroes will.

I would think that early exposure is well and good, but if you've got 15 years to work with, 15 years of intense study by an adult, willing to be cloistered and make this a career will do the trick. And no small number of the Brotherhood of St. Zherneau (including the sisterhood partnered with it) are young enough, bright enough, earnest enough, and not committed to hitting the Tellesberg bar scene every few nights to qualify. In a very short portion of that 15 year span, you could probably tap some Sisters of St. Kohdy for that sort of thing too, and some of them will be better prepared to be subtle about it if there's sneaking still required in 15 years or so.

15 years spent wheedling Owl would, for instance, be fine adult training for wheedling the Thing in the Basement if it's anything like wheedling in need of doing. Nahrmahn can offer tips. (Poor Owl.)

I like that solution!

Dan Jones