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The great treecat migration...

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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by Somtaaw   » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:18 pm

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Thinking a little more on this, my original reply had been based mostly on the treecats being moved to colonize what amounts to a virgin planet, no other human presence at all.


Ideally, they'd be moving the treecat extra-Sphinx colonies into other systems that already have human presence, and just create a "similar to Sphinx" judicial law insert to protect the treecats.

Haven itself may not be a pick, because I think it's described as almost a Coruscant type planet, with little to no wilderness and primarily city. I infer that from a line somewhere that Haven has to import food from other planets in the Republic, just to feed its population. Which implies little to no cropland on the planet because it's almost totally covered by government needs, and the general population.

Grayson's a top pick, it's already heavily defended, a long time tight ally of Manticore, and they already practically worship treecats because of Honor. So they'd increase the colony size there pretty fast.

Andermani empire would also get some treecats relatively quickly going to New Potsdam.

Bolthole, almost without saying. Being a shipyard, they could easily whip up a few artificial habitats specifically for the treecats, which gives them plenty to explore without losing their arboreal needs.



Mostly any place that there's a heavy need for the cats, mostly for their ability to detect the nano-adjusted assassins, but where the new colony would already have medium to very heavy system defences already in place. So you're really just looking at the following questions:
-what size a ship do you need to transport a colony to said existing solar system with sufficient defences and a political need for furry assassin detectors
-size of escort for said transport


4 MT transport would be more than sufficient to carry an entire treecat clan, plus an absurd amount of foodstuffs (meaning celery)
-possibly use one of the older JNMCT transports with their faster hyper generator, better particle screens, etc and Eta band capability.

In keeping with the increased speed, minimum escort would be at least a full squadron of heavy cruisers, possibly two. And again, Sarnow Deployment, because with a cargo of treecats, you're more concerned about making sure absolutely NOTHING gets into weapons range of the transport.

Battlecruiser's would be more ideal for this escort, but heavy cruisers are both more numerous, and more likely to have two or maybe even three full squadrons shaken loose for escort than even a single squadron of BC's. Keeping in mind, this sort of operation might be happening at the same time as the SLN is conducting it's "piracy" operations, and Battlecruisers being both ideal commerce raider (and protectors), while Heavy Cruisers are the hands of the Fleet, this sort of escort role belongs to the Heavy Cruisers.

Superdreadnoughts and CLAC's are almost totally unsuited for this form of escort operation. If combat were to happen, it's more likely to occur in hyper where the LACs can't be used, and the podnought's also fighting at a disadvantage.
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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by munroburton   » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:38 pm

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Somtaaw wrote:Haven itself may not be a pick, because I think it's described as almost a Coruscant type planet, with little to no wilderness and primarily city. I infer that from a line somewhere that Haven has to import food from other planets in the Republic, just to feed its population. Which implies little to no cropland on the planet because it's almost totally covered by government needs, and the general population.


Planets in the honorverse aren't single-biome, like in Star Wars. Haven was importing food because it had too many Dolists eating and not enough farmers. Check the textev where Michelle Henke is a PoW on Haven itself - she and the other second-war PoWs were kept on an island.

I don't think sticking treecats on "virgin" planets will work. They're going to need to bring Sphinxian flora and fauna in order to plant and breed them so the planet is viable for long-term settlement. That means a lot of technology, particularly when we remember what happened to the original Manticoran colonists.

The treecats themselves are going to require continious medical and genetic care to make any colonies a viable effort. That means putting them near human settlements, for the moment, as I haven't heard of any treecat engineers or scientists.

Besides, there's no way for treecats and humans to bond over interplanetary distances. That right there is a criminal waste of potential.
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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by Somtaaw   » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:02 pm

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munroburton wrote:
Somtaaw wrote:Haven itself may not be a pick, because I think it's described as almost a Coruscant type planet, with little to no wilderness and primarily city. I infer that from a line somewhere that Haven has to import food from other planets in the Republic, just to feed its population. Which implies little to no cropland on the planet because it's almost totally covered by government needs, and the general population.


Planets in the honorverse aren't single-biome, like in Star Wars. Haven was importing food because it had too many Dolists eating and not enough farmers. Check the textev where Michelle Henke is a PoW on Haven itself - she and the other second-war PoWs were kept on an island.


Must have missed that Henke was being kept on Haven itself, and not another planet in the same system, or hell even a nearby system that would be only a few days absence from the capital for the visit from Pritchard.

munroburton wrote:I don't think sticking treecats on "virgin" planets will work. They're going to need to bring Sphinxian flora and fauna in order to plant and breed them so the planet is viable for long-term settlement. That means a lot of technology, particularly when we remember what happened to the original Manticoran colonists.

The treecats themselves are going to require continious medical and genetic care to make any colonies a viable effort. That means putting them near human settlements, for the moment, as I haven't heard of any treecat engineers or scientists.

Besides, there's no way for treecats and humans to bond over interplanetary distances. That right there is a criminal waste of potential.


I say virgin, but Sphinx is described as a virgin planet. The majority of it is untouched wilderness, so that's what I was meaning if I wasn't very clear.

Planets that are more wilderness than people, with more than sufficient room for entire 'cat clans to be there and still be almost as sneaky as they are on Sphinx. And lots and lots of space for them to be happy exploring for decades to centuries (from the description of how explorative Nimitz' and Samantha's children were on the pinnance, and how they liked the Jason Bay home, among other homes they've been kept in)

Enough human presence, whether on the planet, or in the space system to warrant the large(r) space defences that would keep the planet safe(r) than before the treecat clan arrival, but small enough that it's not overwhelming.
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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by saber964   » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:46 pm

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A lot of a planet is 'virgin' wilderness just look at ole planet Earth. Siberia numbers in the low millions but 90% is along the trans-Siberian RR or Canada 90% of the population is within 100 miles of U.S.-Can border or the Amazon basin or the Australian outback or Alaska.
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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by Tail Twitcher   » Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:02 pm

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From this I presume the cats have instigated it; I mean they didn't ask with Grayson, they just did it.

Perhaps they would do the same again.

They have lots of sneakiness. I could see them a time or two repeating what they did.

Sure eventually they may want an official colony; but I can't help think that their tendancies to sneaky is part of their arboureal DNA.

'A great migration' just wouldn't be sneaky.

Sorry not to answer your post as you requested, but it seems unlikely in the current climate they would ask that.
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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by cthia   » Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:10 pm

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I was under the impression that the Queen bees of the hives, the Memory Singers, weren't actually growing on trees. It was almost a treecat federal offense for a memory singer to leave the range. They were just too valuable. What would be the availability of enough memory singers to set out on another planet so remote from the home hive (system)? There would have to be enough of them for the clan to win an attritious battle with fate. How important is a memory singer to the health of a clan?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by saber964   » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:29 pm

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cthia wrote:I was under the impression that the Queen bees of the hives, the Memory Singers, weren't actually growing on trees. It was almost a treecat federal offense for a memory singer to leave the range. They were just too valuable. What would be the availability of enough memory singers to set out on another planet so remote from the home hive (system)? There would have to be enough of them for the clan to win an attritious battle with fate. How important is a memory singer to the health of a clan?



Yes and no, most singers don't leave but it is not unheard of, IIRC Morgana and Brilliant images went out with escorts. Hera moved to Grayson, Sorrow Singer was visiting relatives and then we have Samantha and all her adventures.
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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by Somtaaw   » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:55 pm

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Tail Twitcher wrote:From this I presume the cats have instigated it; I mean they didn't ask with Grayson, they just did it.

Perhaps they would do the same again.

They have lots of sneakiness. I could see them a time or two repeating what they did.

Sure eventually they may want an official colony; but I can't help think that their tendancies to sneaky is part of their arboureal DNA.

'A great migration' just wouldn't be sneaky.

Sorry not to answer your post as you requested, but it seems unlikely in the current climate they would ask that.



Well the Grayson colony was also 'founded' something like 10 T-years prior to treecat's being able to talk to humans. It was done prior to Honor taking her heavy cruiser command that led to her capture, and Hades experiences. Wasn't until she'd gotten back, which was somewhere between 3 and 5 years just for the Battle of Hades and capture of SS transports + hyper trips to get back to San Martin, let alone anywhere else. Then time for Allison to figure it out, contacting and waiting for whats-her-name from Honor's experiences in Basilisk, yadda yadda figure it out.

So there was a large differential in both time, and mindsets in regards to treecats. At the point in time of the books, the treecats quite literally can ask for where the two-legs would suggest they setup shop.
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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by saber964   » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:42 am

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Somtaaw wrote:
Tail Twitcher wrote:From this I presume the cats have instigated it; I mean they didn't ask with Grayson, they just did it.

Perhaps they would do the same again.

They have lots of sneakiness. I could see them a time or two repeating what they did.

Sure eventually they may want an official colony; but I can't help think that their tendancies to sneaky is part of their arboureal DNA.

'A great migration' just wouldn't be sneaky.

Sorry not to answer your post as you requested, but it seems unlikely in the current climate they would ask that.



Well the Grayson colony was also 'founded' something like 10 T-years prior to treecat's being able to talk to humans. It was done prior to Honor taking her heavy cruiser command that led to her capture, and Hades experiences. Wasn't until she'd gotten back, which was somewhere between 3 and 5 years just for the Battle of Hades and capture of SS transports + hyper trips to get back to San Martin, let alone anywhere else. Then time for Allison to figure it out, contacting and waiting for whats-her-name from Honor's experiences in Basilisk, yadda yadda figure it out.

So there was a large differential in both time, and mindsets in regards to treecats. At the point in time of the books, the treecats quite literally can ask for where the two-legs would suggest they setup shop.



Actually the treecats immigrated to Grayson only about five years before the learning to 'talk'. 1910-11 PD Sam and Nimitz lead first colony to Grayson. 1914-15 PD Dr. Arif teaches Sam and Nimitz to sign.
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Re: The great treecat migration...
Post by Somtaaw   » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:50 pm

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saber964 wrote:
Actually the treecats immigrated to Grayson only about five years before the learning to 'talk'. 1910-11 PD Sam and Nimitz lead first colony to Grayson. 1914-15 PD Dr. Arif teaches Sam and Nimitz to sign.


I'll concede that it's about 5 or 6 years for the very beginning of treecats being able to 'talk' to humans, but it's closer to 10 before even Honor or Elizabeth have truly explored many of the treecat societies complexities.

I stretched it a bit by saying 10 years for talking to start, but yeah, we're closer to about 15 years in terms of the current plot, aftermath of Second BoMa, and treecats being rather intimately aware of what could happen with all their eggs being in one planetary basket and when they started the Grayson colony.
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