Battle of Monica Question

Terekhov took the least undesirable option. He had two ships that could even hit the incoming Monican/SLN battlecruisers, and only one of those could do noticeable damage, those from Hexapuma.


Isn't there a line in the related chapters, that he was planning to almost shoot Hexapuma dry, to get the tactical information? Being a heavy cruiser, Hexapuma had somewhere between 45 minutes to perhaps two hours worth of firing, depending on whether he goes rapid-fire all tubes, or timed rate. Aegis on the other hand, would have been shooting blanks by 30 minutes, and additionally would have scored virtually no damage beyond the ECM scouting.


And the last, but telling argument would be.... Aegis' missiles, seeded in with those of the heavy cruisers, would have basically been acting rather like Dazzler's and Dragon Teeth. If Aegis fires upto a second ahead of the various cruisers, those lightweight missiles would have drawn off counter-missile and PDLC fire that might have taken out the larger, more powerful missiles. Fired closely with the other ships (and without Ghost Rider drones), the Monican BCs wouldn't be able to tell whose missiles they could ignore, and coming in as a tight group, it becomes a probability game as to which missiles get taken out, and with the smaller missiles in front, probability rises that they get hit by the CMs.

Somtaaw wrote:Terekhov took the least undesirable option. He had two ships that could even hit the incoming Monican/SLN battlecruisers, and only one of those could do noticeable damage, those from Hexapuma.


Isn't there a line in the related chapters, that he was planning to almost shoot Hexapuma dry, to get the tactical information? Being a heavy cruiser, Hexapuma had somewhere between 45 minutes to perhaps two hours worth of firing, depending on whether he goes rapid-fire all tubes, or timed rate. Aegis on the other hand, would have been shooting blanks by 30 minutes, and additionally would have scored virtually no damage beyond the ECM scouting.


And the last, but telling argument would be.... Aegis' missiles, seeded in with those of the heavy cruisers, would have basically been acting rather like Dazzler's and Dragon Teeth. If Aegis fires upto a second ahead of the various cruisers, those lightweight missiles would have drawn off counter-missile and PDLC fire that might have taken out the larger, more powerful missiles. Fired closely with the other ships (and without Ghost Rider drones), the Monican BCs wouldn't be able to tell whose missiles they could ignore, and coming in as a tight group, it becomes a probability game as to which missiles get taken out, and with the smaller missiles in front, probability rises that they get hit by the CMs.

The Avalon actually has a total of 16 off-bore CMs and 20 LERM launchers. Being a design mate of the Sag-B, it probably only has 90-135 degree off-bore launching, limiting it's fire to adjacent arcs. Assuming it would maximize it's fire, it would turn bow or stern to the oncoming ships and unleash all 16 CMs and 20 LERMS. 8 Broadside CM tubes is the same as a Star Knight, so with the gutted nature of the survivors, the Avalon probably constituted almost half of the offensive and defensive power of the "small fries" against the 3 BCs.

Theemile wrote:The Avalon actually has a total of 16 off-bore CMs and 20 LERM launchers. Being a design mate of the Sag-B, it probably only has 90-135 degree off-bore launching, limiting it's fire to adjacent arcs. Assuming it would maximize it's fire, it would turn bow or stern to the oncoming ships and unleash all 16 CMs and 20 LERMS. 8 Broadside CM tubes is the same as a Star Knight, so with the gutted nature of the survivors, the Avalon probably constituted almost half of the offensive and defensive power of the "small fries" against the 3 BCs.

Number of tubes isn't quite the point I was making, but the amount of ammunition it carries compared to a heavy cruiser. the Avalon should also have a higher cycle time (if the comparison between the Star Knight heavy cruiser Fearless and Chason-class destroyer Troubadour holds to Sag-C versus Avalon).

The reason that Honor didn't go to rapid fire with Fearless back in Yeltsin (until it was too late to save Troubadour) was specifically to increase the weight in each salvo, rather than just going to hip-shooting where both ships simply fired when they'd reloaded. Fearless could sort of sustain maximum rate, Troubadour couldn't.


Similarly, yes Aegis could/did range with Hexapuma. But it was a tactical sacrifice, firing one ship (Hexapuma) flat out, risking being reduced to an energy-range combatant only, with some chance of meaningful damage caused while also maximizing the salvo sizes later, after the ECM scouting. Larger salvo size (even with the smaller missiles from Aegis mixed in) means more targets the CM's have to engage, where I pointed out with smart timing the Avalon's missiles being "in the lead" would be higher odds of eating a CM that would have been better used intercepting a missile from a Star Knight (bigger missile, bigger warhead)


The golden BB, partly caused by Monican stupidity helped dropping the odds down from 3 hostile BC's to 2 helped, but Aegis just could not have caused that much damage if Hexapuma and Aegis had been 'flipped' in roles. It might have savaged one of the Indefatigable's fore hammerhead, but it never could have reached to the fusion core. After blinding the lead Indefatigable, Commodore Horster would have ordered all three BC's to skew which would have brought their broadsides to bear earlier than he actually did.

Somtaaw wrote:

Theemile wrote:The Avalon actually has a total of 16 off-bore CMs and 20 LERM launchers. Being a design mate of the Sag-B, it probably only has 90-135 degree off-bore launching, limiting it's fire to adjacent arcs. Assuming it would maximize it's fire, it would turn bow or stern to the oncoming ships and unleash all 16 CMs and 20 LERMS. 8 Broadside CM tubes is the same as a Star Knight, so with the gutted nature of the survivors, the Avalon probably constituted almost half of the offensive and defensive power of the "small fries" against the 3 BCs.

Number of tubes isn't quite the point I was making, but the amount of ammunition it carries compared to a heavy cruiser. the Avalon should also have a higher cycle time (if the comparison between the Star Knight heavy cruiser Fearless and Chason-class destroyer Troubadour holds to Sag-C versus Avalon).

The reason that Honor didn't go to rapid fire with Fearless back in Yeltsin (until it was too late to save Troubadour) was specifically to increase the weight in each salvo, rather than just going to hip-shooting where both ships simply fired when they'd reloaded. Fearless could sort of sustain maximum rate, Troubadour couldn't.


Similarly, yes Aegis could/did range with Hexapuma. But it was a tactical sacrifice, firing one ship (Hexapuma) flat out, risking being reduced to an energy-range combatant only, with some chance of meaningful damage caused while also maximizing the salvo sizes later, after the ECM scouting. Larger salvo size (even with the smaller missiles from Aegis mixed in) means more targets the CM's have to engage, where I pointed out with smart timing the Avalon's missiles being "in the lead" would be higher odds of eating a CM that would have been better used intercepting a missile from a Star Knight (bigger missile, bigger warhead)


The golden BB, partly caused by Monican stupidity helped dropping the odds down from 3 hostile BC's to 2 helped, but Aegis just could not have caused that much damage if Hexapuma and Aegis had been 'flipped' in roles. It might have savaged one of the Indefatigable's fore hammerhead, but it never could have reached to the fusion core. After blinding the lead Indefatigable, Commodore Horster would have ordered all three BC's to skew which would have brought their broadsides to bear earlier than he actually did.

Actually Somataaw, I was agreeing with you - The Aegis represented the largest mass of high speed launchers in the squadron - it was important to husband it's smaller ammo supply and lighter warheads and focus it's fire in concert with the rest of the squadron, which was anemic without the Aegis.

I was specifically responding to the query as to how much capability the Aegis actually represented - and the answer is quite a bit - depending on the situation, I'd probably prefer an Avalon CL to a Star Knight CA - especially if the LERM has a upgraded warhead (which wasn't available in 1920 for Monica)

Theemile wrote:
Actually Somataaw, I was agreeing with you - The Aegis represented the largest mass of high speed launchers in the squadron - it was important to husband it's smaller ammo supply and lighter warheads and focus it's fire in concert with the rest of the squadron, which was anemic without the Aegis.

I was specifically responding to the query as to how much capability the Aegis actually represented - and the answer is quite a bit - depending on the situation, I'd probably prefer an Avalon CL to a Star Knight CA - especially if the LERM has a upgraded warhead (which wasn't available in 1920 for Monica)

My mistake, I had thought you were advocating that yes the Avalon should have been firing instead of Hexapuma. I stand corrected.

I'm not quite sure I'd prefer having an Avalon CL over a Star Knight CA for most situations, but then again I'm admittedly a big fan of the battlecruiser doctrine that Manticore is (in)famous for. Big, beefy ships that rely on speed, precision and boldness rather than any single doctrine other classes may have. So I'd reach for nothing smaller than a CA for just about any job I need done, that doesn't boil down to "I need an actual pair of eyes in a hyper-capable hull to sweep"