Battle of Monica Question

When Terekhov realises there are three battlecruiser incoming we get an explanation that only HMS Hexapuma has the range to start shooting at them before they can return fire. It is also mentioned that HMS Warlock has a very small range advantage over the Monicans.

My problem is that HMS Aegis was still combat capable at this point of the battle, and according to HoS should have been armed with the Mk36 LERM, giving her sufficiently long range to be able to help Hexapuma whittle the battlecruisers at long range.

Why doesn't Terekhov even consider this option?

Also as a side question: Why is Warlock described as having 16 tubes in her less damaged broadside when HotQ and HoS clearly establish that Star Knight class cruisers only have 12 tubes?

Nadion wrote:When Terekhov realises there are three battlecruiser incoming we get an explanation that only HMS Hexapuma has the range to start shooting at them before they can return fire. It is also mentioned that HMS Warlock has a very small range advantage over the Monicans.

My problem is that HMS Aegis was still combat capable at this point of the battle, and according to HoS should have been armed with the Mk36 LERM, giving her sufficiently long range to be able to help Hexapuma whittle the battlecruisers at long range.

Why doesn't Terekhov even consider this option?

Also as a side question: Why is Warlock described as having 16 tubes in her less damaged broadside when HotQ and HoS clearly establish that Star Knight class cruisers only have 12 tubes?

HMS Aegis is Avalon class light cruiser and has ERDM or Extended Range Drive Missile which IIRC has about double the range of a SDM or 14 million km vs 7 million km range the HMS Hexapuma has first generation Mk16 DDM's with a range of 35 - 40 million km.

saber964 wrote:HMS Aegis is Avalon class light cruiser and has ERDM or Extended Range Drive Missile which IIRC has about double the range of a SDM or 14 million km vs 7 million km range the HMS Hexapuma has first generation Mk16 DDM's with a range of 35 - 40 million km.

The mk16 only has a range from rest of 29 million km. I believe the mk36 has range of 19 million km. Even at 14 million km there would have been time for Aegis to launch multiple salvos before the battlecruisers arrived.

Furthermore why does Terekhov mention Warlock having slightly more range than the battlecruisers - but never spares a thought for Aegis which substantially outranges Warlock?

Aegis is still a light cruiser, so her endurance is going to be low, especially at maximum rate fire. Her warheads are also less damaging. Better to synchronize her fire with the rest of the squadron to overwhelm the BC's point defense, instead of sending it in with Hexapuma's lighter fire to get chopped up.

Nadion wrote:The mk16 only has a range from rest of 29 million km. I believe the mk36 has range of 19 million km. Even at 14 million km there would have been time for Aegis to launch multiple salvos before the battlecruisers arrived.

Furthermore why does Terekhov mention Warlock having slightly more range than the battlecruisers - but never spares a thought for Aegis which substantially outranges Warlock?

My simple reason is all your questions could be answered with a simple oops .

For a more complicated answer what was the purpose of the early engagement. To feel out the enemy defenses. The Mark 16s were more than capable of that adding 20 missiles from the CL was not going to add much. But would have depleted the number of missiles available for the important part of the engagement. When inundating the defenses were available.

A CA(L) only has missiles for 30 salvos. A DD(L) only has missiles for 20 salvos. So if the CL is at the midpoint of these 2 that is a grand total of 25 salvos.

Bear in mind that if the final part of the battle follow plan the first--18 salvos were at 18 second intervals. After the CA(L) runs out it is to be assumed that they then went to 14 second intervals. 11 minute final engagement 18 times 18 equals 324 seconds(5 and half minutes). Or another 7 Salvos at the shortest most accurate range or 7 salvos when a light less accurate range.

Given the logic above has whole people can drive a SD through I am going with oops.

Please remember HoS was released 9 years after SoS. Presumably BU9 had to rationalize and smooth HoS.

If all else fails Terekov is human lot of things going on. I am going to give the author and Terekov a pass and call it the vagaries of historians.

Have fun,
T2M

[edit] All that work and Duckk slipped the answer by me when I previewed somehow. <grrr>

Does the MK36 have the same acceleration as one of the MK16's drives? If not, Hexapuma would have had to slow her missiles down to synchronise each salvo.

Do their launchers have the same reload rate? If also a negative, then the disparity means one of the ships will have to slow down their fire rate.

munroburton wrote:Does the MK36 have the same acceleration as one of the MK16's drives? If not, Hexapuma would have had to slow her missiles down to synchronise each salvo.

Do their launchers have the same reload rate? If also a negative, then the disparity means one of the ships will have to slow down their fire rate.

The drives on the Mk16 and the Mk36 almost certainly have the same acceleration settings - roughly 92,000g at full power, or 46,000g at 1/2 power (but triple endurance).

However over most of the ERM's flight envelope the Mk16 can either run both drives at full power, or do a full power + half power flight profile; covering the same range in less time.





I'm not 100% sure of my numbers on the ERMs, but based primarily around the performance of the Ephraim Tudor in MoH here's what I came up with:

0 - 3.7 million km Mk36 full power (90 seconds max endurance)
3.7 - 16.7 million km Mk36 needs half power (340 seconds max endurance)[1]

0 - 6.6 million km the Mk16 stays at full power
6.6 - 19 million km the Mk16 can do 100% + 50%[2]
19 - 30 million km the Mk16 needs half power from both drives

------------------------
[1] The Mk16 on a full+half profile would hit 16.7 million km 47 seconds sooner; at 223 seconds.
[2] The order maters. If you do the 50% burn first you get the same terminal velocity, but about 5 million km less powered range.

munroburton wrote:Does the MK36 have the same acceleration as one of the MK16's drives? If not, Hexapuma would have had to slow her missiles down to synchronise each salvo.

Do their launchers have the same reload rate? If also a negative, then the disparity means one of the ships will have to slow down their fire rate.

The Mk36 is a capacitor powered missile, so the cycle times of the launchers should be faster than the launchers for Mk16s that have to bootstrap the fusion power plant in each missile.

Nadion wrote:When Terekhov realises there are three battlecruiser incoming we get an explanation that only HMS Hexapuma has the range to start shooting at them before they can return fire. It is also mentioned that HMS Warlock has a very small range advantage over the Monicans.

My problem is that HMS Aegis was still combat capable at this point of the battle, and according to HoS should have been armed with the Mk36 LERM, giving her sufficiently long range to be able to help Hexapuma whittle the battlecruisers at long range.

Why doesn't Terekhov even consider this option?

Since it hasn't come up yet, apparently - Is there some reason to be sure a light cruiser sent to a backwater posting, with no/trivial expected threats, is necessarily going to be equipped with the top-of-the-line-for-it missile that few or no other units in that area are able to use anyway?

Economy and simplification of logistics would both argue for maybe letting a light cruiser in that situation use the same older missile type - if it can also use it at all - that plenty of other ships in the station are also using, when it is not expected to make any difference anyway.

Couple of notes.

Cycle times were 8 seconds for Aegis, it is given in the passage Chapter 58 of Shadow of Saganami. Which contains the whole battle.

Also Ephraim Tudor was a heavy cruiser, presumably equipped with Mark 14's. Also the minimum separation that Honor was requesting was 20 million kilometers. Covered in Chapter 43 of WoH.

It was Brigham’s turn to look unhappy, and she nodded slowly. The confrontation in the Schiller System had ended far less happily than the one at Walther. The Andermani senior officer in that case had seen fit to ignore the senior Manticoran officer’s warning to maintain separation when he caught the Manticoran patrol separated. Instead, the understrength three-ship Andermani division of light cruisers had continued to bore in on the single Manticoran heavy cruiser which had been operating in a detached role.

Fortunately, in that instance the Andies obviously hadn’t had any of their handy-dandy strap-on missile pods. The three light cruisers had continued to close, and the Manticoran cruiser Ephraim Tudor had opened fire when they approached to within fifteen million kilometers.

Though the Mark 36 and the Mark 14 "probably" have the same range.

What any of it means good question. Good luck figuring any of it out.

Have fun,
T2M