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[HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?

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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by Keith_w   » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:14 am

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more importantly, they walk into the paper supplier's offices and say "who did you sell this paper to?" and the paper supplier replies "I've never seen this paper before so I haven't sold it to anyone". And then he/they proceed to describe why the paper they are showing does not match his stocks.
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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by Expert snuggler   » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:39 am

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If the paper is provably not of local origin that undermines the idea that they are from local activists.
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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by Louis R   » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:10 pm

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Even with genuine Safehold-made paper, only in unusual cases would it be possible to prove a specific source - they don't have the tech that would be needed for most generic pulp papers. They probably can't even identify the plants used in most cases; if not, they'd have trouble pinning a particular piece of paper to Corisande vs Kyznetsov unless it was watermarked.


Expert snuggler wrote:If the paper is provably not of local origin that undermines the idea that they are from local activists.
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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by TBird50   » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:46 pm

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I'm re-reading all the books and I just finished BHD. Bishop Mylz Halcom was concerned about the paper used in correspondence with him. He thinks to himself: "I think, though, that it might not be a bad idea to suggest that our friend use less expensive paper in the future. Wave Thunder might not be able to break the cipher, but I'll bet his agents could probably locate everyone who sells this particular paper...and find out who they sold it to."

Also, and this is off the current track somewhat but still falls under the heading "Why Didn't Merlin?"; I got to thinking about when Merlin saves Sharleyan at St. Agtha's. I'm wondering why Merlin A: Revealed himself to Sharleyan & Seamount at all instead of just killing all the attackers and leaving; and B: Since he did reveal himself - why didn't he change into one of his other persona's such as Ahbraim Zhevons?

On to AMF...
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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by CJK   » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:04 pm

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Ahbraim Zhevons didn't exist at the time of Sharleyan's assassination attempt at St Agthas. As for the reveal, yes Merlin could have remained out of sight if he chose to but that would have left Sharleyan out in the open. Merlin probably thought it was necessary to inform Sharleyan the attackers were dead so she could start moving to the Charis ships for backup. NTM might look bad if he didn't ensure she was safe before leaving to Cayleb.
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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by TBird50   » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:20 pm

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CJK wrote:Ahbraim Zhevons didn't exist at the time of Sharleyan's assassination attempt at St Agthas. As for the reveal, yes Merlin could have remained out of sight if he chose to but that would have left Sharleyan out in the open. Merlin probably thought it was necessary to inform Sharleyan the attackers were dead so she could start moving to the Charis ships for backup. NTM might look bad if he didn't ensure she was safe before leaving to Cayleb.


Oh, I'm just nit-picking; but he could have changed his appearance to anything (within reason as set out by DW) just as he made himself into his Merlin persona. Zhevons had not yet been introduced, but it still could have been him or it could have been just some anonymous person who "stumbled" into the fight. In thinking about it; I am of the opinion that Merlin decided that this would make a perfect opportunity to introduce Sharley into the inner circle and circumvent the delays taken by the Brethren of St. Zherneau.
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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by evilauthor   » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:31 am

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TBird50 wrote:Oh, I'm just nit-picking; but he could have changed his appearance to anything (within reason as set out by DW) just as he made himself into his Merlin persona. Zhevons had not yet been introduced, but it still could have been him or it could have been just some anonymous person who "stumbled" into the fight.


Oh, there's PLENTY of things Merlin could have done early in the series but didn't because it hadn't occurred to him to do so. The eye contacts and hidden comms all the Inner Circle now has for example. It actually required Sharleyan suggesting the idea because Merlin would never have thought to do it himself. I think the latest example is the "primitive" laser guided bombs Merlin now has to circumvent sensors looking for "modern" Fed tech weaponry.

This as been a continuing trend throughout the series.
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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by Keith_w   » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:54 am

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evilauthor wrote:
TBird50 wrote:Oh, I'm just nit-picking; but he could have changed his appearance to anything (within reason as set out by DW) just as he made himself into his Merlin persona. Zhevons had not yet been introduced, but it still could have been him or it could have been just some anonymous person who "stumbled" into the fight.


Oh, there's PLENTY of things Merlin could have done early in the series but didn't because it hadn't occurred to him to do so. The eye contacts and hidden comms all the Inner Circle now has for example. It actually required Sharleyan suggesting the idea because Merlin would never have thought to do it himself. I think the latest example is the "primitive" laser guided bombs Merlin now has to circumvent sensors looking for "modern" Fed tech weaponry.

This as been a continuing trend throughout the series.


And let's not forget converting at least one of the trucks to a bus so he can bring more than one person at a time to Nimue's cave. Probably turned out very useful when he rescued the young lady and her family from the concentration camp.
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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by JeffEngel   » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:20 am

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TBird50 wrote:Oh, I'm just nit-picking; but he could have changed his appearance to anything (within reason as set out by DW) just as he made himself into his Merlin persona. Zhevons had not yet been introduced, but it still could have been him or it could have been just some anonymous person who "stumbled" into the fight.
It was a rushed affair and a very tense situation - not the best background for Merlin working out a clever cover for that end. Given what he'd have to do there, some other seijin/possible-demon being responsible may have raised more questions than he was prepared to open up, at least without better planning.
In thinking about it; I am of the opinion that Merlin decided that this would make a perfect opportunity to introduce Sharley into the inner circle and circumvent the delays taken by the Brethren of St. Zherneau.

I doubt he was thinking about it in quite those terms. The Brotherhood may have been slower than he'd've liked, but their role is precisely making sure the secret is shared in utterly secure ways. If things when wrong, silencing Sharleyan would have been a national disaster, precisely as bad as Merlin letting her be assassinated.

But I do think that he didn't regard Sharleyan finding out a lot about his secrets and mission as a terribly bad thing, so risking that to preserve her life and prevent any extravagant loose ends wasn't something he would go to much trouble to avoid in a plan - to the extent what he did was planned at all.

It's not an end-run around the Brotherhood - it's more that letting that secret out then under those circumstances was an entirely acceptable risk or price in his view.
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Re: [HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?
Post by TBird50   » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:36 pm

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I admit I'm quibbling about things a bit. But remember that it took Merlin 1 1/2 hrs to reach St Agthas. He also knew he shouldn't, really couldn't, be doing this, but he did it anyways. In retrospect, I just think he had to be planning what he would do and how he would do it - of course assuming he would be in time to save Sharley. It's entirely possible that he didn't think about changing his appearance. But he also thought it was "stupid" of the Brethren to not OK her admittance to the circle and we already know that his plans don't necessarily coincide with anyone else's; IMO he took it upon himself to use the occasion to tell her. Since he dispatched all the assassins, there was no one else that saw him so he could have left (or stuck around long enough to know she was safe) with no one the wiser. There may have been questions about how they survived, but they would have probably assumed that the guards were able to miraculously fend off the attack before they too were all killed.

Well I'm done now, this is old history now so I shouldn't be reviving this. Thanks to everybody for making these forums so fun to discuss this great epic story. Write fast DW! I can hardly wait for the next one.
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