Why is Manticore's population so small?

You can make all sorts of reasonable arguments about how a society with prolong would work. David's take isn't unreasonable. A separate point is that it is typically a lot easier to convince people to lower the number of kids they have then to increase that number.

kzt wrote:You can make all sorts of reasonable arguments about how a society with prolong would work. David's take isn't unreasonable. A separate point is that it is typically a lot easier to convince people to lower the number of kids they have then to increase that number.

Especially as the costs associated with raising children increase, and the need for children to help on the farm or care for you in your old age diminishes.

jeremyr wrote:True, but I'm not sure this is a valid argument in a prolong society. Honor's parents just had kids and how old are they?

Bear in mind, prolong hasn't been around all that long (I believe Admiral Rajampet was a first-gen prolong recipient, correct me if I'm wrong), and Manticore didn't get it at once. The sociological changes it'll cause are very much a work in progress.

Dafmeister wrote:

jeremyr wrote:True, but I'm not sure this is a valid argument in a prolong society. Honor's parents just had kids and how old are they?

Bear in mind, prolong hasn't been around all that long (I believe Admiral Rajampet was a first-gen prolong recipient, correct me if I'm wrong), and Manticore didn't get it at once. The sociological changes it'll cause are very much a work in progress.

So is Admiral White Haven. According to the HV wiki(not the most reliable source, I know), Hamish was born in 1820 and Rajampet in 1798.

The MWJ was discovered in the late 1500s. The first prolong treatment in the SKM was in 1829(likely Roger III). Since the treatment generally doesn't work on those older than 25, it was first developed, trialled and approved no later than 1820(based on Rajampet).

So there was at least a nine years delay between Beowulf starting the treatments and Manticore beginning to adminster them, despite a wormhole bridge linking the two locations - whilst Sol(or the SLN) got to adminster it earlier.

munroburton wrote:So there was at least a nine years delay between Beowulf starting the treatments and Manticore beginning to adminster them, despite a wormhole bridge linking the two locations - whilst Sol(or the SLN) got to adminster it earlier.

The delay for Manticore doing them at home was probably due to the wormhole connection to Beowulf: if you can afford it, you just go there for the treatment, reducing pressure to get it set up in the Manticore System itself.

Sol, by contrast, was an enormous market and far enough from Beowulf that the trip would be something it would be worthwhile to avoid, but certainly close enough to import the expertise easily.

Rajampet probably did not rise to his position without having some pull already as a youngster, enough so that, with a couple centuries of life on the line, a trip or several to Beowulf for it would have been well worth it and affordable, in cash or favors - unless there's specific evidence it was done for him in the Sol System?

JeffEngel wrote:

munroburton wrote:So there was at least a nine years delay between Beowulf starting the treatments and Manticore beginning to adminster them, despite a wormhole bridge linking the two locations - whilst Sol(or the SLN) got to adminster it earlier.

The delay for Manticore doing them at home was probably due to the wormhole connection to Beowulf: if you can afford it, you just go there for the treatment, reducing pressure to get it set up in the Manticore System itself.

Sol, by contrast, was an enormous market and far enough from Beowulf that the trip would be something it would be worthwhile to avoid, but certainly close enough to import the expertise easily.

Rajampet probably did not rise to his position without having some pull already as a youngster, enough so that, with a couple centuries of life on the line, a trip or several to Beowulf for it would have been well worth it and affordable, in cash or favors - unless there's specific evidence it was done for him in the Sol System?

Actually, I can quickly see Prolong being used and offered by the military, even before it is in the populace. We're continually told how much knowledge and experience is required in HV militaries. Prior to prolong, I doubt militaries could insist on longer than a 4-6 year enlistment period. Since it takes at least 18 months to train a basic sailor, that leaves a relatively short period of time you can use his talents, before you need to train a replacement.

By offering Prolong to Officers and enlisted men, you can insist on longer service terms, reducing your training changover, and allowing longer training periods for each position, all because suddenly, 10 or 20 years isn't that big of a deal.

You have to understand the history of the US military to understand how much of a disaster that would likely be. Up or out exists for very good reasons. Though it is hardly a perfect tool, it is better than what preceded it.

kzt wrote:You have to understand the history of the US military to understand how much of a disaster that would likely be. Up or out exists for very good reasons. Though it is hardly a perfect tool, it is better than what preceded it.

How so? I can understand the need to move the problem children along, but with the Military's emphasis on well-educated NCOs and Warrants, I would think retention would be appreciated, especially in the segments which require specialized training?

Not arguing, mind you, just interested in the history behind your comment.

Theemile wrote:

kzt wrote:You have to understand the history of the US military to understand how much of a disaster that would likely be. Up or out exists for very good reasons. Though it is hardly a perfect tool, it is better than what preceded it.

How so? I can understand the need to move the problem children along, but with the Military's emphasis on well-educated NCOs and Warrants, I would think retention would be appreciated, especially in the segments which require specialized training?

Not arguing, mind you, just interested in the history behind your comment.

You ended up with people never able to advance because they were jammed behind superannuated people who occupied the slots they could be promoted into. You have the guy who has been a mediocre (at best) major for 25 years, and multiple hard charging well qualified captains have quit in disgust over the years because they will never go anywhere as long as he is there.

kzt wrote:You ended up with people never able to advance because they were jammed behind superannuated people who occupied the slots they could be promoted into. You have the guy who has been a mediocre (at best) major for 25 years, and multiple hard charging well qualified captains have quit in disgust over the years because they will never go anywhere as long as he is there.

Which is exactly the situation the SLN is currently in now.

Unfortunately, the business world isn't much better.