Misdirection by MWW, Rainbow Waters vs Thursk, HFQ SPOILERS

CJK wrote:Yes my mistake on Bishop Militant Bahrnabai Wyrshym, he was offered surrender terms and we have no text saying he committed suicide afterwards like Kaitswyrth. My point remains that torturing and killing your general's family for disobeying what any military commander knows are impossible orders has consequences. Usually by making the next general vastly more concerned about watching his back than the enemy in front.

Agreed, which is why I said Clyntahn still can't grasp the fact that terror techniques might work for awhile, but sooner or later someone is going to say "enough is enough " , and there will be one less would be God in the world.

Duchairn: "To improve morale and remind everyone what they're fighting for, I've invited a few hundred of the best of General Disingenuous's soldiers to the Temple for a special blessing. Nobody could object to that, unless he's trying to undermine morale for some reason."

Wouldn't work though. Brief enough men for the mission and Inquisitors would get wind of it.

Expert snuggler wrote:Duchairn: "To improve morale and remind everyone what they're fighting for, I've invited a few hundred of the best of General Disingenuous's soldiers to the Temple for a special blessing. Nobody could object to that, unless he's trying to undermine morale for some reason."

Wouldn't work though. Brief enough men for the mission and Inquisitors would get wind of it.

At some point, you wouldn't need to brief them. Just present an opportunity and they'll take the initiative.

Although given the trouble that the Inquisition has already gone to to get any standing military forces out of Zion's immediate vicinity, just inviting any large body of soldiers to the Temple would be construed as a coup attempt.

Even unarmed?

If the Temple Guard cooperates, the fortunate pilgrims could come in after a careful search and then be supplied from the TG armory.

Easternmystic wrote:

pokermind wrote:A lot of stuff is pointing at Thursk, but what if Rainbow Waters and his peasant army do a 180?

Imagine if Clyntan orders Rainbow Waters arrest and the peasant army revolts, a freed Rainbow Waters joins the revolution. Clyntan like the Czar of Russia discovers an instant collapse of the front, and serfs no longer wishing to remain serfs. One of the main tenets of the revolution is the fallibility of mother church, Charis is right! Might be just the surprise our favorite Mad Wizard pulls out of the hat,

When said army gets back to Herchong, things they will be a changing.

Poker

Anyone with power From Harchong is a master of oblique references. They never respond with a direct affirmative or negative. Yo understand the meaning of any correspondence one must know the context for the messages and the correspondents prior relationship. Any correspondence that Rainbow Waters sends the church will have enough wriggle room for him to have substantial leeway in how he implements any commands.

there is also the fact that Clyntahn trusts Harchong. He will give them much more rope than anyone else. Rayno will also be there to argue in favor of anything someone from Harchong does. It will be a long time before Clyntahn moves against anyone from Harchong. He will blame everyone else charged with supporting The Harchong forces first.

I'm not so sure Rayno and Clyntahn are on the same page regarding Harchong. There's a conversation between him and the Grand Inquisitor in which Rayno reflects upon the subtle ways he has undermined the Mighty Host because he does not want an army of serfs coming home actual war fighting skills and foreign notions in their head that might disrupt the proper social order.

Yes Rayno is not happy with Rainbow Waters and the HoGaA due to the threat they pose to Harchong. Regardless his efforts are limited due to Clyntahn being in charge so he cannot do anything too noticeable. That he is willing to undermine the last remaining hammer Clyntahn has though indicates a flaw in Rayno. After all if Clyntahn is worried about the jihad Rayno certainly should be. That he is more concerned with his home archbishopric than the jihad may be more of an indicator of how cynical/calculating the CoGA is.

That said Rayno was specifically concerned with his own territory and was less certain of the towering loyalty of Harchong than Clyntahn. It would be fascinating if Rayno is reflecting how many others feel about the HoGaA training and equipment policy back in Harchong. IMO I doubt anything will happen as Harchong is a massive corrupt bureaucracy with a detached/insular nobility. Given how they reacted to the original summons to the jihad I expect a coherent response to be beyond them.

Rayno could be expected to push for human-wave tactics so as to minimize the number of trained soldiers coming back to cause trouble.

I expect Clyntahn to push for human waves to be able to claim victory despite it likely to result in a later defeat. Fortunately for the CoGA they are not in charge of the HoGaA, Rainbow Waters is and he sees how bad that strategy would be. NTM the way he has equipped the HoGaA means that it is not required.

If Rayno's intense hatred leads him to subtly sabotage Rainbow Waters then he may just get executed by Clyntahn. After all Clyntahn is not certain of his victory and has shown less concern with preserving his allies.

CJK wrote:I expect Clyntahn to push for human waves to be able to claim victory despite it likely to result in a later defeat. Fortunately for the CoGA they are not in charge of the HoGaA, Rainbow Waters is and he sees how bad that strategy would be. NTM the way he has equipped the HoGaA means that it is not required.

If Rayno's intense hatred leads him to subtly sabotage Rainbow Waters then he may just get executed by Clyntahn. After all Clyntahn is not certain of his victory and has shown less concern with preserving his allies.

Rainbow Waters seems to have a bit more insulation from the inquisition than most TL commanders simply due to being Harchongese whose orthodoxy is beyond question, at least in Clyntahn's mind. But I bet that Clyntahn is going to find giving orders and expecting them to be carried out is going to be as frstrating as watching paint dry given the Harchongese skill at procrastination and dissembling as well as creatively reconstructing any orders given.

That said, I find Rainbow Waters quite impressive. With the exception of Thirsk, he's probably the most intelligent commander we've seen on the TL side...and he does show some signs of humanity as well.


We shall see.

Don

Easternmystic wrote:

pokermind wrote:A lot of stuff is pointing at Thursk, but what if Rainbow Waters and his peasant army do a 180?

Imagine if Clyntan orders Rainbow Waters arrest and the peasant army revolts, a freed Rainbow Waters joins the revolution. Clyntan like the Czar of Russia discovers an instant collapse of the front, and serfs no longer wishing to remain serfs. One of the main tenets of the revolution is the fallibility of mother church, Charis is right! Might be just the surprise our favorite Mad Wizard pulls out of the hat,

When said army gets back to Herchong, things they will be a changing.

Poker

Anyone with power From Harchong is a master of oblique references. They never respond with a direct affirmative or negative. Yo understand the meaning of any correspondence one must know the context for the messages and the correspondents prior relationship. Any correspondence that Rainbow Waters sends the church will have enough wriggle room for him to have substantial leeway in how he implements any commands.

there is also the fact that Clyntahn trusts Harchong. He will give them much more rope than anyone else. Rayno will also be there to argue in favor of anything someone from Harchong does. It will be a long time before Clyntahn moves against anyone from Harchong. He will blame everyone else charged with supporting The Harchong forces first.

Mr. Weber may provide that the supply route to provide food and arms to the Harchong soldiers army be cut, or severely restricted. (As I have noted elsewhere, the arming of a skimmer with guns to destroy the ship carrying the Thirsk family would allow it's use to blow up supply- and arms-dumps furnishing the Harchongese).