Missing Armies

StealthSeeker wrote:I remember the Raven's Land mentioned in an earlier book where Eastshare had to negotiate permissions to pass with his army on the way to Siddarmark's northern territories but I don't remember hearing anything more about them. They may have supplied some of the draft animals that
Eastshare used during his winter campaign.

But there are several places on the big map that Weber supplies that get no mention at all that I remember. Like Hammer Island, or the whole norther continent of Trillheim or the southern island of Samson's Island. There is even that smaller island of Duchy of Fallos that I don't recall being mentioned.

Is anybody aware of any background or part in the grand scheme of things for these areas to play?

StealthSeeker...
I think therefore I am.... I think...

"Of course you are my bright little star, I've miles and miles
of files pretty files of your forefather's fruit And now to suit our great computer, you're magnetic ink.
I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
Face piles and piles of trials with smiles.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave... and keep on thinking free" is that Moody Blues lyric the extension of your quote or am I in left field?

God... it is scary what the human brain will dredge up but now I have to drag out my collection of Moody Blues on vinyl

Your recollection about the need to negotiate with various Raven Land Lords is why I though of Ireland.

Fallos is a major source of timber, spars and naval stores like pitch and turpentine. That's what the gold shipment was going to pay for. Hard to say how firmly their principles are standing in the face of the current reduction in market access

Given how awkward that sort of stuff is to steal, they've probably never had much of a problem with raiders, either.

JeffEngel wrote:< snip >

The Duchy of Fallos was near an interception of a lot of Church gold. It's got a small population of fishers and loggers mostly, and was (and still presumably is) trying to keep its head down when far larger nations go to war around it.

And yes, Raven's Land has resumed commercial relations with the Empire of Charis, which have included the cold-weather animals BGV particularly has been using. It's not been made explicit, but I think we can assume that Hammer Islanders and Fallosians are trading quietly with Charisians too.

C. O. Thompson wrote:

StealthSeeker...
I think therefore I am.... I think...

"Of course you are my bright little star, I've miles and miles
of files pretty files of your forefather's fruit And now to suit our great computer, you're magnetic ink.
I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
Face piles and piles of trials with smiles.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave... and keep on thinking free" is that Moody Blues lyric the extension of your quote or am I in left field?

God... it is scary what the human brain will dredge up but now I have to drag out my collection of Moody Blues on vinyl

Your recollection about the need to negotiate with various Raven Land Lords is why I though of Ireland.

C. O. Thompson:

“I think, therefore I am” is a philosophical expression arrived at by some French philosopher centuries ago. The idea is that my ability to think and form thought about something is confirmation of my existence as if I didn't exist I couldn't form thought. Or so the philosophy goes.

The “I think...” extension is derived from the twist the comedian George Carlin put to this philosophy. I just looked up the George Carlin quote and it goes as follows, “I think I am, therefore, I am... I think.” George Carlin had a sense of humor that I thoroughly enjoyed. To me, Carlin's twist on this philosophy, pokes fun at human fallibility. Just who are we to have such hubris to be thinking any such thing, as it were.

So my version of “I think therefore I am... I think...” is for me a humorous way of signing each of my post with the equivalent of saying “Here are my thoughts and ideas, as flawed as they may be.”

StealthSeeker wrote:I remember the Raven's Land mentioned in an earlier book where Eastshare had to negotiate permissions to pass with his army on the way to Siddarmark's northern territories but I don't remember hearing anything more about them. They may have supplied some of the draft animals that
Eastshare used during his winter campaign.

But there are several places on the big map that Weber supplies that get no mention at all that I remember. Like Hammer Island, or the whole norther continent of Trillheim or the southern island of Samson's Island. There is even that smaller island of Duchy of Fallos that I don't recall being mentioned.

Is anybody aware of any background or part in the grand scheme of things for these areas to play?

Safehold was never completely terraformed; the terraforming teams and ships worked until Terran plants, animals and bacteria hit a tipping point plus a safe threshold, before they allowed the colonists to "land". I don't know how long a full terraforming job would have taken or if the fleet even had the resources, but there was a need to stop the process as quickly as possible and hide the ships to minimize the likelihood that the Gabba would find them..

So some of the distant points in Safehold are still "native" and less hospitable for human life (and agriculture) than the settled places.

It is quite likely that the islands of the back side of the world, despite their size, have extreme difficulty supporting a large human presence because Terran microbes and flora have not taken hold, so large colonies never developed because agriculture could only sustain a certain sized group.

Theemile wrote:Safehold was never completely terraformed; the terraforming teams and ships worked until Terran plants, animals and bacteria hit a tipping point plus a safe threshold, before they allowed the colonists to "land". I don't know how long a full terraforming job would have taken or if the fleet even had the resources, but there was a need to stop the process as quickly as possible and hide the ships to minimize the likelihood that the Gabba would find them..

And only so long to keep people safely in cryo. They may well have terraformed mostly around particular areas for initial enclaves to start and left the rest to the Adams and Eves.

So some of the distant points in Safehold are still "native" and less hospitable for human life (and agriculture) than the settled places.

It is quite likely that the islands of the back side of the world, despite their size, have extreme difficulty supporting a large human presence because Terran microbes and flora have not taken hold, so large colonies never developed because agriculture could only sustain a certain sized group.

I think they are in many cases a work in progress. The Writ contains terraforming instructions within Safehold's capabilities and that is still going on; South March is one notable example.

Terraforming is a major investment with slow return - it took some significant capital, time, and will to turn even just northern European forests into farmland in the Middle Ages, and this is a lot more work. Having a foothold so that it's "just" an extension of useful land is a great help, but you don't have that on a distant island. Those probably fall into three categories:
1 - Had a foothold at least courtesy of Shan-wei. Charis is definitely that; Armageddon Reef, outside the Alexandria Enclave itself was; Chisholm and Corisande, almost certainly; Emerald, Tarot, Zebediah, Trellheim, probably.
2 - Got a later foothold courtesy of major trouble by some sponsor, or modest trouble in case of nearby islands. I think Silverlode is an instance of this, with Charis' help - it'd account handily for it being the outright possession of the Ahrmahk's. Smaller Out Islands, Trellheim, the Barren Lands may all be in this category. Samson's Land may be a future candidate.
3 - Got a later foothold courtesy of small-scale, private, possibly desperate, probably slow efforts. Go place, land, support yourself fishing and logging til you can farm and develop, some day, a full economy. This could account for Fallos, Hammer Island, whatever few people are on some other out of the way places. Raven's Land may have started from Chisholmians who wanted to get away from it all with dry feet; Trellheim, from escaped Harchong serfs. Plenty of speculation we could do here - probably not a lot to prove or disprive much of it.

StealthSeeker wrote:

C. O. Thompson wrote:

StealthSeeker...
I think therefore I am.... I think...

"Of course you are my bright little star, I've miles and miles
of files pretty files of your forefather's fruit And now to suit our great computer, you're magnetic ink.
I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
Face piles and piles of trials with smiles.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave... and keep on thinking free" is that Moody Blues lyric the extension of your quote or am I in left field?

God... it is scary what the human brain will dredge up but now I have to drag out my collection of Moody Blues on vinyl

Your recollection about the need to negotiate with various Raven Land Lords is why I though of Ireland.

C. O. Thompson:

“I think, therefore I am” is a philosophical expression arrived at by some French philosopher centuries ago. The idea is that my ability to think and form thought about something is confirmation of my existence as if I didn't exist I couldn't form thought. Or so the philosophy goes.

The “I think...” extension is derived from the twist the comedian George Carlin put to this philosophy. I just looked up the George Carlin quote and it goes as follows, “I think I am, therefore, I am... I think.” George Carlin had a sense of humor that I thoroughly enjoyed. To me, Carlin's twist on this philosophy, pokes fun at human fallibility. Just who are we to have such hubris to be thinking any such thing, as it were.

So my version of “I think therefore I am... I think...” is for me a humorous way of signing each of my post with the equivalent of saying “Here are my thoughts and ideas, as flawed as they may be.”

StealthSeeker,
I can see where Georg Carlin would have had fun with that concept. Thanks for the information, maybe I can find a recording of that skit.
The Moody Blues LP's were concept productions and I still think I will give them a re-listen over the next few days.

C. O. Thompson wrote:I can see where Georg Carlin would have had fun with that concept.

Carlin wasn't the only one:

Aasif Mandvi,
via Reader's Digest
Nov 2015 wrote:Rene DesCartes was at a party when the waite asked if he would care for an hors d'oeuvre. Descartes said, "I think not" ... and vanished.

C. O. Thompson wrote:
StealthSeeker,
I can see where George Carlin would have had fun with that concept. Thanks for the information, maybe I can find a recording of that skit.
The Moody Blues LP's were concept productions and I still think I will give them a re-listen over the next few days.

If you find it please pass it along. To be honest, I can no longer remember the full context in how he used it. Per your prompting, I tried to find it myself and so far I can only find a reference to it being in his book "Napalm & Silly Putty". However, oddly enough, I can clearly remember one part of a skit from when I first herd him do a stand up routine when I was very young. He told the tail of how he never wanted to have a hot water heater in his house, he instead would prefer to have a cold water heater. After all, if the water was already hot why would he want to heat it more. In the ideas he expressed in his comedy he opened up a whole new variety of ways for me to look at a confusing world. I will be forever grateful to him for that.

To get back to the original topic the reason we haven't seen any forces from Sodar and Delferahk is twofold. First of all, these nations are fairly poor with little manufacturing capability, so their ability to properly equip forces is limited. Second, there are immense logistical issues in moving large numbers of Delferakian or Sodarian troops all the way to Siddermark by land. Furthermore, even if it was possible, it would take forever and cost a lot of money to feed them during their months long journey. As for Silkah, presumably they are either forming their own army to support Dolhar, or sending their rifle production to the Dolharians, who currently kinda need all the rifles they can get their hands on.

blackjack217 wrote:To get back to the original topic the reason we haven't seen any forces from Sodar and Delferahk is twofold. First of all, these nations are fairly poor with little manufacturing capability, so their ability to properly equip forces is limited. Second, there are immense logistical issues in moving large numbers of Delferakian or Sodarian troops all the way to Siddermark by land. Furthermore, even if it was possible, it would take forever and cost a lot of money to feed them during their months long journey. As for Silkah, presumably they are either forming their own army to support Dolhar, or sending their rifle production to the Dolharians, who currently kinda need all the rifles they can get their hands on.

Silkiah's construction is designated to the Temple, probably for use by the MHOG.

Don