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Why is Manticore's population so small?

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Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by GabrialSagan   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:48 am

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Circa 1905 P.D.

The SKM had the highest per capita GSP in the galaxy. The SKM had plenty of space on its three planets. The SKM was in desperate need of people to help them meet the manpower needs of fighting a war against Haven. The SKM knew this war was coming for almost a century before the shooting started and had plenty of time to create an aggressive immigration program similar to the one they had after the plague years and a ready pool of potential colonists from among the populations of the Verge worlds who would probably be willing to take their chances against the Peeps if it meant getting away from OFS and their transtellar masters.

So will all that in mind, why is the population of the SKM a mere 3 billion people and not closer to seven or eight billion?
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Re: Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by Silverwall   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:50 am

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Historically the richer and more educated your population base the lower the birth rate, if anything the populations of the rest of the honorverse are high.
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Re: Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by GabrialSagan   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:02 am

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Silverwall wrote:Historically the richer and more educated your population base the lower the birth rate, if anything the populations of the rest of the honorverse are high.


True, and it would make sense that their birth rates would be low. I am more interested in their immigration policy.

There are trillions of people in the galaxy, a lot of them live on worlds with weak economies or oppressive regimes. If Manticore wanted to keep a tight border and limit immigration that is one thing, but with the threat of war on the horizon and the need for personnel you would think they would be trying to recruit every yard dog in the galaxy and opening the flood gates of the tired, poor and all those yearning to be free to anyone willing to enlist and fight the Peeps.

My understanding is that Earth is teeming with people living in destitution, is their a reason that the RMN does not have a recruiting station on Terra or any other planet with an excess population?
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Re: Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by Silverwall   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:33 am

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They would realistically only want people from first class star nations e.g. core leage worlds or Andies, folks from the protectorates / non alligned worlds would take too much re-training.

Anyway with a system population of over 3 billion manning thier fleet isn't really a problem, even at the height of the war they never got close to ww2 levels of service by an order of magnitude. The real cruch was the ability to pay for the war and the simplest way was to increase the junction fees and the historically low tax rates. Immigration is slower, less reliable and politically undesirable over a certain level as you generally can only naturalise people so fast and you want to avoid ghetto's like the arab quarters of paris or the pakistani communities in the UK where unemployed youth are a breeding ground for trouble.
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Re: Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by Daryl   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:36 am

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I agree with the previous posts, but will add that the general population was not as certain as the elites that war was coming. Somewhat like the current debate in OTL about climate change.
Most citizens just want to live their lives and let others do the heavy lifting, while complaining from the sidelines. "What, you want to increase the Navy Appropriation again? Our family needs a third air car, and a vacation to Sol, yet you won't reduce taxes."
The elites wouldn't want immigration to dilute their privileged position, like uppity descendants of Beowulf imports becoming Duchesses.
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Re: Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by George J. Smith   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:47 am

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I thought the SKM had a steady stream of refugees from worlds taken over by the PRH? How much would that actually contribute to the population over the 20+ years of the PRH expansion?
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by Maldorian   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:03 am

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Theory and Practice!

I live in Germany. At the Moment are thousands of refugees comming to Germany and thats day per day. We already have over 1 million refugees in the last months, thats over one percent of our whole Population. We have big logistic problems! A big Problem is the lack of Apartments! All the people need a roof above their heads.

Then you need enough People who speak the languege of the People and and and...

So the idea to invite People to your star system is only in Limits practical! If you cry into the galaxy that everyone should come to you, you will be overrun!
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Re: Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by dscott8   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:02 am

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I would imagine that some potential immigrants are put off by the need to pay more in taxes than you get in benefits if you want to vote. I also suspect that immigrating between worlds is a lot tougher and more expensive than immigration on-planet.
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Re: Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by drothgery   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:30 pm

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GabrialSagan wrote:My understanding is that Earth is teeming with people living in destitution
It's not. The illegal immigrant ghetto in Old Chicago that Victor visited in From the Highlands (and similar areas in other cities on Earth) is a tiny, tiny minority of the Sol system's population.
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Re: Why is Manticore's population so small?
Post by GabrialSagan   » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:20 pm

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drothgery wrote:
GabrialSagan wrote:My understanding is that Earth is teeming with people living in destitution
It's not. The illegal immigrant ghetto in Old Chicago that Victor visited in From the Highlands (and similar areas in other cities on Earth) is a tiny, tiny minority of the Sol system's population.


A "tiny minority" on Earth is still millions of people. According to House of Steel Sol has a population around five times the size of Manticore's.

Maldorian wrote:Theory and Practice!

I live in Germany. At the Moment are thousands of refugees comming to Germany and thats day per day. We already have over 1 million refugees in the last months, thats over one percent of our whole Population. We have big logistic problems! A big Problem is the lack of Apartments! All the people need a roof above their heads.

Then you need enough People who speak the languege of the People and and and...

So the idea to invite People to your star system is only in Limits practical! If you cry into the galaxy that everyone should come to you, you will be overrun!


I hear you, but I am not talking about an ad hoc response to a refugee crisis. I am talking about the Star Kingdom making a pro-active effort to enlist and recruit young men and women to join their fight against Haven in exchange for citizenship in the most prosperous nation in human history, a nation that is so influential that it can dictate terms to the Solarian League.

Silverwall wrote:They would realistically only want people from first class star nations e.g. core leage worlds or Andies, folks from the protectorates / non alligned worlds would take too much re-training.

Anyway with a system population of over 3 billion manning thier fleet isn't really a problem, even at the height of the war they never got close to ww2 levels of service by an order of magnitude. The real cruch was the ability to pay for the war and the simplest way was to increase the junction fees and the historically low tax rates. Immigration is slower, less reliable and politically undesirable over a certain level as you generally can only naturalise people so fast and you want to avoid ghetto's like the arab quarters of paris or the pakistani communities in the UK where unemployed youth are a breeding ground for trouble.


That would make a degree of sense if the books did not emphatically state that one of the biggest boons the Crown foresees in annexing the Talbot Quadrant and Silesia is the huge expansion of their population and if the navy being short handed was not constantly being brought up.
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