Missing Armies

Here's a question, where are the armies of Sodar, Silkah and Delfarahk?

So far we have seen the Imperial Harchong Army (IHA), Royal Dohlarian Army (RDhA), Imperal Desnarian Army (IDA), Temple Lands Army of God (AoG) and the Boarder States. But we have seen hide nor hair of any armies from Delferahk Sodar and Silkah. There could be several reason why for each of the nation states. Here are my possible reasons;

Sodar to poor to field any proper or trained armies beyond local militias.

Silkah probably to small to field an army of any size except for a force of border guards and was likely a DMZ between Siddarmark and Desnar.

But as for Delferahk I can think of no reason for them to sit out on the side lines beyond them avoiding ticking off Charis after getting there wrist slapped rather forcefully by the ICN twice.

Silkiah was purposely created by the Church as a DMZ any military activity within it was forbidden, so no standing army or military tradition to draw on. Their workshops had to be given special permission before they could even start making rifles for the AoG.

Also to consider in Silkiah's case in addition to the DMZ ruling is how it participated in the undermining of Clyntahn's embargo order. So it would be only after the Sword of Schueler attack that the CoGA would release funds to Silkiah for building up an army given their questionable reliability. Granted the question remains whether Silkiah just outright turncoats at this point, it has more in common with Siddarmark at this point and denying the canals to Charis is something they cannot enforce.

As for Delfarahk their king Zhames for all his lack of ability (as he himself sees it) has shown to have the biggest brains out of the mainland rulers. He stated prior to the escape of his cousin the prince of Corisande that he wanted to keep right out of the jihad (in his words keep head down). Now fortunately for him the combo of the great escape plus the razing Ferayd give him cover for being unable to fight. The other reason is how the Sword of Schueler changed things, it was likely considered not worth using his army given the large distances and speed being crucial to followup the SoS attack. NTM the small fact that Desnar had near 1/4 million men on its own which should be more than enough to finish off Siddarmark. right?

saber964 wrote:Here's a question, where are the armies of Sodar, Silkah and Delfarahk?

So far we have seen the Imperial Harchong Army (IHA), Royal Dohlarian Army (RDhA), Imperal Desnarian Army (IDA), Temple Lands Army of God (AoG) and the Boarder States. But we have seen hide nor hair of any armies from Delferahk Sodar and Silkah. There could be several reason why for each of the nation states. Here are my possible reasons;

Sodar to poor to field any proper or trained armies beyond local militias.

Silkah probably to small to field an army of any size except for a force of border guards and was likely a DMZ between Siddarmark and Desnar.

But as for Delferahk I can think of no reason for them to sit out on the side lines beyond them avoiding ticking off Charis after getting there wrist slapped rather forcefully by the ICN twice.

It occurred to me that Tarot has not had any army presents nor have The Raven Lands ((which I read as actually independent tribes) kind of like Ireland before Cromwell's day)

Likewise and on a related note... Tarot and Emerald seem to be off the schedule for visits from Calyeb or Sherlyanne

C. O. Thompson wrote:

saber964 wrote:Here's a question, where are the armies of Sodar, Silkah and Delfarahk?

So far we have seen the Imperial Harchong Army (IHA), Royal Dohlarian Army (RDhA), Imperal Desnarian Army (IDA), Temple Lands Army of God (AoG) and the Boarder States. But we have seen hide nor hair of any armies from Delferahk Sodar and Silkah. There could be several reason why for each of the nation states. Here are my possible reasons;

Sodar to poor to field any proper or trained armies beyond local militias.

Silkah probably to small to field an army of any size except for a force of border guards and was likely a DMZ between Siddarmark and Desnar.

But as for Delferahk I can think of no reason for them to sit out on the side lines beyond them avoiding ticking off Charis after getting there wrist slapped rather forcefully by the ICN twice.

It occurred to me that Tarot has not had any army presents nor have The Raven Lands ((which I read as actually independent tribes) kind of like Ireland before Cromwell's day)

Likewise and on a related note... Tarot and Emerald seem to be off the schedule for visits from Calyeb or Sherlyanne

According to RFC the Raven Lands have a very small population in the neighborhood of 100-150,000 people. That makes it way to small to have any type of effective army beyond a locally fielded ad hoc militia if any.

saber964 C. O. Thompson
Here's a question, where are the armies of Sodar, Silkah and Delfarahk?

So far we have seen the Imperial Harchong Army (IHA), Royal Dohlarian Army (RDhA), Imperal Desnarian Army (IDA), Temple Lands Army of God (AoG) and the Boarder States. But we have seen hide nor hair of any armies from Delferahk Sodar and Silkah. There could be several reason why for each of the nation states. Here are my possible reasons;

Sodar to poor to field any proper or trained armies beyond local militias.

Silkah probably to small to field an army of any size except for a force of border guards and was likely a DMZ between Siddarmark and Desnar.

But as for Delferahk I can think of no reason for them to sit out on the side lines beyond them avoiding ticking off Charis after getting there wrist slapped rather forcefully by the ICN twice.[/quote]

It occurred to me that Tarot has not had any army presents nor have The Raven Lands ((which I read as actually independent tribes) kind of like Ireland before Cromwell's day)

Likewise and on a related note... Tarot and Emerald seem to be off the schedule for visits from Calyeb or Sherlyanne [/quote]


According to RFC the Raven Lands have a very small population in the neighborhood of 100-150,000 people. That makes it way to small to have any type of effective army beyond a locally fielded ad hoc militia if any.[/quote]

OK,
I guess I can live with that answer about Raven Lands and... the have been supportive of ICA efforts but a scout sniper platoon or drovers for the Caribou and snow dragons... Also I admit that Tarot has quite a few in the ICN. I guess what sparked my thought was the arrival of a cavalry officer from Emerald who had been sent specifically by Narman uncle and the fact that someone else asked about missing army.

I also recall that Charis invaded Corisande with marines because they had no army to speak of.

C. O. Thompson wrote:I guess I can live with that answer about Raven Lands and... the have been supportive of ICA efforts but a scout sniper platoon or drovers for the Caribou and snow dragons... Also I admit that Tarot has quite a few in the ICN. I guess what sparked my thought was the arrival of a cavalry officer from Emerald who had been sent specifically by Narman uncle and the fact that someone else asked about missing army.

I also recall that Charis invaded Corisande with marines because they had no army to speak of.

Island nations don't have to worry about invaders walking over the frontier, and their own invasions over the water would require not only commanding the sea lines of communication but also transporting them and landing them, possibly against opposition. It's a daunting proposition, and opting out of that game when you can saves a whole lot of resources - which can help you have that navy to avoid having it happen to you.

Remaining uses for an army are sheer national/dynastic/personal ego; keeping separatists in line; and keeping rebels in line. Ego isn't likely a great factor among the Out Islands royalty that way. Keeping separatists and rebels in line certainly was a factor for Chisholm and Corisande. Zebediah was, technically, the exceptional case of an island nations mounting and suffering successful invasions, but given the scales and locations, a biased Corisandean or Daykyn judge could call that a rebel/separatist case and have something like a point. It's notable that they were invaded by a state that needed an army to keep itself together, and that it was itself a nation that probably didn't need one to keep itself together, although there may have been a little role there for keeping the boot on the peasantry.

Emerald, Tarot, and Charis seem to be a lot more stable and united that way - at any rate, the growth of Old Charis as an Ahrmahk dynastic possession hasn't left angry Margaret's Land secessionists ready to take up arms, and a Silverlode secessionist would have some work to do to get so much as noticed.

That Emeraldian cavalry officer was notable for being a rare bird that way - Emerald, any more than Charis, didn't have a use for much cavalry and probably didn't have any more horse romance than is the bare minimum for a landed aristocracy.

Sodar, while a mainland realm, cannot afford an army and could not move it from border to border all that well. Sodar's borders seem to be where neighbors quit wanting to tear off any more of it.

I remember the Raven's Land mentioned in an earlier book where Eastshare had to negotiate permissions to pass with his army on the way to Siddarmark's northern territories but I don't remember hearing anything more about them. They may have supplied some of the draft animals that
Eastshare used during his winter campaign.

But there are several places on the big map that Weber supplies that get no mention at all that I remember. Like Hammer Island, or the whole norther continent of Trillheim or the southern island of Samson's Island. There is even that smaller island of Duchy of Fallos that I don't recall being mentioned.

Is anybody aware of any background or part in the grand scheme of things for these areas to play?

StealthSeeker wrote:I remember the Raven's Land mentioned in an earlier book where Eastshare had to negotiate permissions to pass with his army on the way to Siddarmark's northern territories but I don't remember hearing anything more about them. They may have supplied some of the draft animals that
Eastshare used during his winter campaign.

But there are several places on the big map that Weber supplies that get no mention at all that I remember. Like Hammer Island, or the whole norther continent of Trillheim or the southern island of Samson's Island. There is even that smaller island of Duchy of Fallos that I don't recall being mentioned.

Is anybody aware of any background or part in the grand scheme of things for these areas to play?

Hammer Island is mostly notable for weather around it; RFC "Food for Speculators" post gives it a small population.

Trellheim had pirates used as proxies by Corisande against Chisholm, but their ships weren't enough for the Temple to bother trying to tap against Charis. Again, very few people there too, and given how cold it is, small wonder they get on ships for elsewhere.

Samson's Island has little or no population - it's mostly notable for navigation and for being too close to comfort to Armageddon Reef. I seem to recall a coaling station being mentioned or speculated on there for operations against the Desnairian coast and/or for the westward route from Charis to the Gulf of Dohlar and other western mainland spots.

The Duchy of Fallos was near an interception of a lot of Church gold. It's got a small population of fishers and loggers mostly, and was (and still presumably is) trying to keep its head down when far larger nations go to war around it.

And yes, Raven's Land has resumed commercial relations with the Empire of Charis, which have included the cold-weather animals BGV particularly has been using. It's not been made explicit, but I think we can assume that Hammer Islanders and Fallosians are trading quietly with Charisians too.

Here is what I remember about armies off the top of my head for smaller political entities (too lazy to go back and look it up) prior to war.

Charis didn't have a standing army, only some poorly organized militia and highly trained Marines who were professionals and second to none at what they did.

Chisholm had a small, but very professional army raised first by Halbrook Hallow and Sailys don't have actual numbers for prior to the war. May well have been the best in the world for its size with exception of Siddarmark.

Corisande had a professional army that was well led and from 120,000 to 140,000 from figures in BHD. Army involved in conquest of Zebediah.

Zebediah under the Grand Duke who was Hektor's governor had an army we know little about apart from knowing that it was broken up under Green Valley and Chermyn.

Tarot had a small army.

Emerald had a small army, much of which was lost at Darcos Bay serving as marines in Nahrman's navy.

Silkiah had no military traditions whatever and therefore no army. Prior to the war it was demilitarized with its independence guaranteed by the Temple.

Delpharek has an army, but we know little about it other than a brief encounter at Feryad as its troops were involved in the massacre aboard Charisian ships. The other place we encounter it was during Irys and Daivys escape along with manning Sarmouth Keep when Sir Dunkyn came calling with his squadron.

Ravens Land has no unified force, but various Raven Lords had forces of warriors that sometimes feuded and sometimes fought together. Our encounter with the Raven Lords is in MTAT as Eastshare and BGV deal with the issue of getting their troops to the mainland after the SOS.

For the more major countries, RFC has posted figures in his Red Meat for the Speculators post.

Don