Suspension of Disbelief.

Relax wrote:

Tenshinai wrote:
The fact that you don´t get why even now...

Aw did I shoot down one of your favorite Sci-Fiction tropes that has no basis in reality?

Tsk Tsk.

Pop goes the sci-fi sacred cow.

Moo!

What are you, an incompetent idiot?

Half your "questions" were outright stupid, the rest was just a big fat "well duh!".

And you´re clearly still completely oblivious why you´re looking like a fool...

Tenshinai wrote:

Relax wrote:
Aw did I shoot down one of your favorite Sci-Fiction tropes that has no basis in reality?

Tsk Tsk.

Pop goes the sci-fi sacred cow.

Moo!

What are you, an incompetent idiot?

Half your "questions" were outright stupid, the rest was just a big fat "well duh!".

I am sure your translation work/degree is really helping determine engineering realities.

When you take an engineering class and open a book let the world know will ya? I won't even wait for a degree, let alone work in the field where the real engineering happens.

Until then, saying anyone else is an incompetent fool on an engineering subject matter.... Who is the fool?

I'm an athist, or close to it; however, I can accept the religions of the honorverse more readily than those of contempoary earth. Maybe because it's fiction. People like to believe in something, almost as much as they like to blame anyone but the person responsible for atrocities. So I can see religion gaining and losing ground in cycles, at least for a long time; unless something fundemental happens to change that.

I can accept the technology, because there is not going to be one path of development - different choices and things would be very different for us. We know there have been brutal wars that must have had some affects on the honorverse, so it isn't so surprising it seems different.

Somtaaw wrote:The point I'm really having to suspend disbelief, is that so far there have been zero encounters with star-faring aliens.

the natives of Basilisk, 'cats, and the handful of other alien intelligences that have been mentioned are one thing... but Fermi Paradox and the question of "where are they?"

It's one thing to have all the humans having scattered to countless millions of colonies, lots of failures which were generally attributed to lack of food or supplies, disease, or just plain "giving up and coming home".

But there's not a single system, that was claimed by a non-human intelligence, that's been mentioned.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer with regards to alien life out there in the honorverse; we don't know how likely it is; we don't know how widespread it already is in the universe, or in this galaxay. So David just picked a scenario and has stuck with it.

Personally I believe there is lots of life out there, but have no idea how much is inteligent. When considering the fact that none - depsite rumours to the contrary - seems to have visited us yet, we take that as proof of intelligent life not existing.

Well, proof of a negative is only a negative.

I saw a saying recently: "I can imagine a world without hate; I can imagine a world without war. And I can see us invading it becuase they wouldn't be expecting it."

We would visit other worlds if they were there; we would probably decimate and enslave them if we could.

Just because we would, doesn't mean another alien civilisation would; in their position, I'd leave us the hell alone, but I would keep an eye on us - from a damn long way away.

Tail Twitcher wrote:I'm an athist, or close to it; however, I can accept the religions of the honorverse more readily than those of contempoary earth. Maybe because it's fiction. People like to believe in something, almost as much as they like to blame anyone but the person responsible for atrocities. So I can see religion gaining and losing ground in cycles, at least for a long time; unless something fundemental happens to change that.

One thing I learned from perusing DW's Wikipedia entry - he's a Methodist lay preacher. This gives him a rather specific viewpoint on religion. I note the number of Buddhist, Taoist, Shinto, Hindu, various flavor of pagan, etc in the universe is indistinguishable from zero. Instead we've pretty much got a religious landscape that's either liberal Christianity (with a nod to Reform Judaism), and a very nasty sort-of Christian cult to embody everything that a God-fearing liberal westerner regards as wrong as a bad guy.

Tail Twitcher wrote:I can accept the technology, because there is not going to be one path of development - different choices and things would be very different for us. We know there have been brutal wars that must have had some affects on the honorverse, so it isn't so surprising it seems different.

Somtaaw wrote:The point I'm really having to suspend disbelief, is that so far there have been zero encounters with star-faring aliens.

the natives of Basilisk, 'cats, and the handful of other alien intelligences that have been mentioned are one thing... but Fermi Paradox and the question of "where are they?"

It's one thing to have all the humans having scattered to countless millions of colonies, lots of failures which were generally attributed to lack of food or supplies, disease, or just plain "giving up and coming home".

But there's not a single system, that was claimed by a non-human intelligence, that's been mentioned.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer with regards to alien life out there in the honorverse; we don't know how likely it is; we don't know how widespread it already is in the universe, or in this galaxay. So David just picked a scenario and has stuck with it.

David said somewhere that there is a three-system group that's run by intelligent star-faring aliens somewhere on the other side of Sol.

Tail Twitcher wrote:
Personally I believe there is lots of life out there, but have no idea how much is inteligent. When considering the fact that none - depsite rumours to the contrary - seems to have visited us yet, we take that as proof of intelligent life not existing.

As far as "rumors" of intelligent aliens, I will just note that there is a vigorous effort on the part of various groups that like to call themselves "skeptics" to prove that all of that is bunk. Whether it is or not.

Tail Twitcher wrote:Well, proof of a negative is only a negative.

I saw a saying recently: "I can imagine a world without hate; I can imagine a world without war. And I can see us invading it becuase they wouldn't be expecting it."

We would visit other worlds if they were there; we would probably decimate and enslave them if we could.

Just because we would, doesn't mean another alien civilization would; in their position, I'd leave us the hell alone, but I would keep an eye on us - from a damn long way away.

Please consider that our current understanding of physics makes interstellar travel essentially impossible for any purpose other than research. Consequently, if there have been any contacts, they're using something that's outside of our current physics. How likely would we be to even recognize what it is?

JohnRoth wrote:

Tail Twitcher wrote:I'm an athist, or close to it; however, I can accept the religions of the honorverse more readily than those of contempoary earth. Maybe because it's fiction. People like to believe in something, almost as much as they like to blame anyone but the person responsible for atrocities. So I can see religion gaining and losing ground in cycles, at least for a long time; unless something fundemental happens to change that.

One thing I learned from perusing DW's Wikipedia entry - he's a Methodist lay preacher. This gives him a rather specific viewpoint on religion. I note the number of Buddhist, Taoist, Shinto, Hindu, various flavor of pagan, etc in the universe is indistinguishable from zero. Instead we've pretty much got a religious landscape that's either liberal Christianity (with a nod to Reform Judaism), and a very nasty sort-of Christian cult to embody everything that a God-fearing liberal westerner regards as wrong as a bad guy.

Not really indistinguishable from zero.

Flag in Exile: Ch 19 wrote:"I was saying Manticoran ships don't have official chaplains. Of course, we've got so many religions and denominations that providing a chaplain for each of them would be the next best thing to impossible even if we tried." She smiled suddenly. "On the first SD I ever served in, the captain was a Roman Catholic—Second Reformation, I think; not the Old Earth denomination—the exec was an Orthodox Jew, the astrogator was a Buddhist, and the com officer was a Scientologist Agnostic. If I remember correctly, the tac officer—my direct superior—was a Mithran, and Chief O'Brien, my tracking yeoman, was a Shinto priest. All of that, mind you, just on the command deck! We had another six thousand odd people in the ship's company, and God only knows how many different religions they represented."

Admittedly most people's religion doesn't come up; just like most people's marital status, or even sexual orientation doesn't come up - it rarely germane to the story so it's just not mentioned. (Though famously RFC has said in posted that Sarnow is happily married to his husband - there just hasn't been a reason yet to met him onscreen; so it exists in the character bible and BuNine databases but hasn't made it into the books)

Relax wrote:
I am sure your translation work/degree is really helping determine engineering realities.

When you take an engineering class and open a book let the world know will ya? I won't even wait for a degree, let alone work in the field where the real engineering happens.

Until then, saying anyone else is an incompetent fool on an engineering subject matter.... Who is the fool?

Having a father and an elder brother who are both civil engineers makes a difference, amazingly.

IIRC, i had read through my dads books on the subject by the time i was 14 or 15.
And later i wrote a computer program for my brother simulating moving objects and forces involved.
Sounds kinda relevant somehow, neh?

Tenshinai wrote:Having a father and an elder brother who are both civil engineers makes a difference, amazingly.

IIRC, i had read through my dads books on the subject by the time i was 14 or 15.
And later i wrote a computer program for my brother simulating moving objects and forces involved.
Sounds kinda relevant somehow, neh?

No, it does not.

I have a sister who is a neruologist and a minor in biology. Doesn't mean I know a damned thing about child neurological surgery. Other than looking like a damned ignorant arrogant fool anyways.

There is a tendency in, especially, the contemporary Western world to distinguish between religion and (Western) science as if the two are diametrically opposed to each other. This isn't true, of course. Both science and religion are simply two of many ways to understand the world around us,but they emphasize different aspects of that world, and they do so in different ways. That does not mean that the twain will never meet; in fact, I feel that the two, along with other ways of understanding the world, can and do offer a more comprehensive understanding than each by itself.

This means that I can readily imagine a powerful role for religions even in such a scientifically and technologically-advanced society as the Honor verse. Or two thousand years from now OTL, for that matter.

If I may interrupt this thread...what bugs me most about the Honorverse, is:

EVERYTHING. Including the space naval tactics.

Literally, I see the Honorverse as nothing more than a fantasy Horatio Hornblower in space. And that's IT.

The setting works for telling stories about a given set of characters, their trials and tribulations. It's always fun to read about the ROFLStomping that this or that nation is going to get because of "Our Guys'" technological superiority. But really, the moment I start thinking about how we could get from here to there, even ignoring FTL and anti-grav, I just don't see it.

First, it's my firm belief that prolong, or rather longevity and gene therapy, will be a prerequisite for longer-term space exploration. We will be living with a very high potential of 120 years of full life before or about the same time that the first humans will set foot on Mars. Definitely before the first humans actually colonize Mars.

Second, advanced gene therapy and manipulation is a prerequisite for long-term space habitation. I'd go so far as to say that we need to become something that is far more suitable to survive in space with the minimal amount of infrastructure. That means being resistant to gamma radiation, being able to survive for at least 10 minutes in space without a spacesuit without our blood boiling off, and so on. On Earth we have always had the luxury to adapt our technology to help us survive in our environment, but space is far less forgiving, and will be more like the deep sea or the South Pole when it comes to our inability to habituate in it.

It would also be really good to figure out a way to make us far more resistant to sudden heavy g-forces. Even if we develop something like a compensator, it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Third, it's unlikely most of our cultures would survive the transition. Our cultures are based on the way things work on Earth. If you think cellphones, smartphones and the internet have had a pretty big impact on the way we interact and where our cultures are going, it's nothing compared to what space culture would be like. We'd be aliens to our current selves.

Finally, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Stuff that would have to happen within the next 200 years, let alone 2000. The Honorverse is nice fantasy, and it's right up there with Norfressa, but that's pretty much it.

You may now return to your pointless squabbling.

ti3x wrote:If I may interrupt this thread...what bugs me most about the Honorverse, is:

EVERYTHING. Including the space naval tactics.

Literally, I see the Honorverse as nothing more than a fantasy Horatio Hornblower in space. And that's IT.

The setting works for telling stories about a given set of characters, their trials and tribulations. It's always fun to read about the ROFLStomping that this or that nation is going to get because of "Our Guys'" technological superiority. But really, the moment I start thinking about how we could get from here to there, even ignoring FTL and anti-grav, I just don't see it.

First, it's my firm belief that prolong, or rather longevity and gene therapy, will be a prerequisite for longer-term space exploration. We will be living with a very high potential of 120 years of full life before or about the same time that the first humans will set foot on Mars. Definitely before the first humans actually colonize Mars.

Second, advanced gene therapy and manipulation is a prerequisite for long-term space habitation. I'd go so far as to say that we need to become something that is far more suitable to survive in space with the minimal amount of infrastructure. That means being resistant to gamma radiation, being able to survive for at least 10 minutes in space without a spacesuit without our blood boiling off, and so on. On Earth we have always had the luxury to adapt our technology to help us survive in our environment, but space is far less forgiving, and will be more like the deep sea or the South Pole when it comes to our inability to habituate in it.

It would also be really good to figure out a way to make us far more resistant to sudden heavy g-forces. Even if we develop something like a compensator, it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Third, it's unlikely most of our cultures would survive the transition. Our cultures are based on the way things work on Earth. If you think cellphones, smartphones and the internet have had a pretty big impact on the way we interact and where our cultures are going, it's nothing compared to what space culture would be like. We'd be aliens to our current selves.

Finally, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Stuff that would have to happen within the next 200 years, let alone 2000. The Honorverse is nice fantasy, and it's right up there with Norfressa, but that's pretty much it.

You may now return to your pointless squabbling.

As I remember the story, that was Jim Baen's reaction when David made the proposal: "Hornblower in Spaaaaaaace!" He accepted on the spot.