The Temple—How might it be taken?

I thought the clock on the thousand-year return had started earlier than that, and that we're only about twenty years away from it.

OWL can't study the Key, but could he imitate it?

Expert snuggler wrote:I thought the clock on the thousand-year return had started earlier than that, and that we're only about twenty years away from it.

OWL can't study the Key, but could he imitate it?

You are right on the timeline. The conversation where the possibility of the Return was discussed was where Father Paityr was introduced to the inner circle in HFAF. The 20 year figure, or iirc, perhaps a bit less, derived from Merlin's ruminations in the aftermath of the conversation with Father Paityr.

What Owl would probably have to do would be to create another AI, isolate that AI from anything that might be damaged, and then use that AI to activate the key. It's far from certain that would work. The difficulty with that would be that at least from what Father Paityr said, the key can only be activated once. Once those exe files are actvated, they are gone with no possibility of a redo. That might not be a bad thing, but from current perspective there is no way to know.

I doubt that Owl could dup the files without triguring security protocols. That was the issue that prevented further study of the files, at least.

Don

If (IF!) enough could be learned about the interface protocols, OWL could make a new Key of his own with executable of Merlin's choice.

Expert snuggler wrote:If (IF!) enough could be learned about the interface protocols, OWL could make a new Key of his own with executable of Merlin's choice.

That is where the entire discussion breaks down for the moment. Owl is the closest thing to a computer nerd on Safehold and it was decided that attempting to penetrate further into the files would be to risk the destruction of whatever entity was doing the penetrating. A flesh and blood who knew what he/she was doing might succeed, but we don't have one of those available at the moment.

We really don't know whether activating the key would be friendly or hostile to Merlin's purpose. My own guess is that it would be hostile.

Don

At one end of the scale of possibilities, there's a well-protected crypto handshake between the Key and the console so that the console would reject a counterfeit Key.

At the other end, it might be something as stupid as USB autorun, in which case there's no need even to look at the Key, just replace it.

A more sophisticated attack would be to sit in between the Key and the console and watch the identification protocol and then start making edits when data gets transferred.

TBird50 wrote:Don & Bluestrike2;

You guys are more than likely correct. However, we're now in the year 897 so there is 103 years until the supposed return. Think of the advancements that happened from say 1865 after the civil war to 1968. If the same amount of technical advancements could happen on earth, think of how far it could advance on Safehold with Merlin et al guiding the advancements. And once all of those technical advancements have happened, I can't believe anyone could stuff the genie back in the bottle - archangel or not. Can you imagine listening to anyone who said we had to give up automobiles and go back to horse & buggy? Plus EoC would be in complete control of Zion and Safehold for that matter by then so they would/should be able to be ready and waiting for whatever or whomever returns. Also after 100 years of (hopefully anyway) beneficent ruling by the EoC, no one but fanatics would believe they are or were influenced by demons. The populace would also be educated to the massive fraud perpetrated on them by then, so I don't necessarily think it would be that big of a risk to wait. I guess time & DW will tell.

TBird 50,
As long as EoC is in complete control of all of Safehold including ZION, I have no problems with letting sleeping gods lie... <grin>
However, I strongly agree with Don and Bluestrike2 that it would be the recipe for disaster to let Schuler or any of the others walk out of the temple proclaiming that they are gods and to let them start to dictate the "rules of the game"

If/when the EoC has control of the temple and the OBS then they can wake up anyone who might be in cryo with a squad of marines to get them some coffee and a muffin while they come to terms with the new reality.

I think you are right about the progress that can be made in 100 years without the threat of the temple and the OBS hanging over them but, it is also likely that any cryo sleepers could be awaken at any time that the EoC wanted and these sleepers could be questioned and if needed put back to sleep or taken to a remote location with "all the comforts of home" but no way to go anywhere.

I also think that the acquisition of the materials that OWL needs to build more PICA's and/or a duplicate of itself and the manufacturing capabilities in the cave are crimped by the OBS so... again, IMHO the best path to whatever is under the temple is through the OBS and any data core there. It has to be disabled but not destroyed as does what ever controls are under the temple and it seems that EoC could use the Key that Pyter gave them so long as the EoC has the control over Zion.

Elsewhere, I stated that this must be done with some sort of covert operation because EoC would not resort to shelling the entire city to get Zasper to surrender or to have others turn him over.
I think that Zasper gets shot while trying to escape or gets a mixed drink with his next shot of Old Mykalym Grand Reserve as a length public trial will be too messy and anyway, there does not seem to be a history for long public trials so I vote for the poison

I don't know...

Cryo is probably out. Nobody has ever used the stuff for longer than 50 years, let alone a thousand. I guess that it can theoretically go up to about 150 years.

A more likely possibility is a preserved personality like Nimue or even a AI, in a virtual reality or a PICA.

Don

n7axw wrote:Cryo is probably out. Nobody has ever used the stuff for longer than 50 years, let alone a thousand. I guess that it can theoretically go up to about 150 years.

A more likely possibility is a preserved personality like Nimue or even a AI, in a virtual reality or a PICA.

Don

I don't think it would be a PICA. In OAR, Nimue brought her PICA along at the last minute, but then she transferred to the ship that would be destroyed by the Gbaba. She supposedly tranferred all her baggage including the PICA so that Langhorne would think it was gone (but actually hidden by Pei). Otherwise Langhorne would destroy it. I'm paraphrasing, but I think that was essentially the deal. So if PICA's were available, then why would Nimue's be such a threat, and if they could be manufactured at Safehold, again why would it matter if Numue had one. Instead, Nimue had to basically commit suicide by transferring to the other ship, and her PICA was hidden somewhere on the Safehold ship until turning into Merlin.

TBird50 wrote:
I don't think it would be a PICA. In OAR, Nimue brought her PICA along at the last minute, but then she transferred to the ship that would be destroyed by the Gbaba. She supposedly tranferred all her baggage including the PICA so that Langhorne would think it was gone (but actually hidden by Pei). Otherwise Langhorne would destroy it. I'm paraphrasing, but I think that was essentially the deal. So if PICA's were available, then why would Nimue's be such a threat, and if they could be manufactured at Safehold, again why would it matter if Numue had one. Instead, Nimue had to basically commit suicide by transferring to the other ship, and her PICA was hidden somewhere on the Safehold ship until turning into Merlin.

They had to sneak Nimue's PICA on because Langhorne would not have allowed one to go. In fact RFC has categorically stated that Langhorne would not have allowed one by anybody, simply because he was so ant-tech. However, a lot of the guys on here believe Chihiro or Schueler, or another archangel could have built one after Langhorne's death. I have a feeling we won't know one way or another for a couple 3 books at least.

Expert snuggler wrote:I thought the clock on the thousand-year return had started earlier than that, and that we're only about twenty years away from it.

OWL can't study the Key, but could he imitate it?

I would rather have a duplicate OWL imitate the key but in any case, I think there needs to be a squad of marines in the room when the attempt to open the lock is made.