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Speculation on the next in the Safehold series

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by Ramhawkfan   » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:08 pm

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Expert snuggler wrote:The return of the archangels in twenty years is something the official Church doesn't know about and that implies the majority of the command crew didn't know about it.

Schueler is increasingly an ambiguous figure.

The Alexandrists had skilled hacking capability available. If whatever is about to wake up is in a computer, it may not be what the creators of it thought it was.

Which side is best known for leaving things buried to pop up centuries later?

Is the Return Shan-wei's third arrow?


That's a very interesting idea. It doesn't seem to fit what the story so far seems to suggest what will happen, but "WOW", what a twist that would be by our ever so devious author.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by Expert snuggler   » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:40 pm

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Yes, it doesn't really fit.

What would really be like throwing a running chain saw at the characters would be if the Return backs the Reformists. A CoGA with its moral authority restored by reform would be better for its subjects in the short run, but deadly to Merlin's goals.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by pokermind   » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:15 am

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IIRC the temple was built after the distruction of the Alexandrian Archive thus it's computers not suceptable to Shin Wei's hackers. However what if Schuler was Shine Wei's agent in the command group and he's what is waking up, a personality stored to be awakened. I doubt Clyntan will be around, but Clintan put to the punishment on orders of Schuler would be rich. Thus the third arrow might just be the awakening of such a mole in the command staff, confirmation of the truth by one of the Archangels.

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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by CJK   » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:00 am

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Whenever someone talks about killing Clyntahn I am reminded of the sermon Staynair gives about why Safehold MUST rise against the group of four. "Choose the best and brightest to be my priests" in other words it is the duty of Safehold to cleanse the Temple, not Merlin. Very similar to how they are encouraging innovation in Safehold.

Merlin may want to kill Clyntahn now but to be quite frank the good guys inc. NEEDED Clyntahn to be a monster as it forces people to question their unthinking obedience to the CoGA. Clyntahn is not the ultimate enemy its the ideology of the CoGA that needs to be broken, in this regard the 3 million dead may well be regarded as necessary and unavoidable.

For that matter given the fuedal state Desnair and Harchong (and the presence of slaves/serfs) we could certainly expect to see more (possibly larger) genocidal atrocities in the future. Especially in light of how these empires rely upon the CoGA clergy support for their position of wealth and power NTM the upsetting nature of the industrial revolution. IMO there is no real way Merlin could have avoided all the bloodshed, what he HAS done is speed up the process of the CoGA's inevitable collapse. May want to reread OAR and Nimue's first thoughts on what would happen, like for example she could do nothing and the collapse would still happen.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by Expert snuggler   » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:00 am

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This is dark to the point of evil and I'm ashamed to have thought of it.

Merlin could assassinate Duchairn and make it look like the Inquisition was responsible.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:53 am

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I doubt more than handful of port cities will be destroyed. Those industrial centers are needed after the war. The City class will punch out the few Dohlaran cities including Gorath to make their point. The screw galleys and regular galleons will have proven their ineffectiveness against the Cities. Only then will the KH VII's steam into the Gulf in late Winter 898.

Whatever faint hope the most optimistic Dohlaran might cherish in defeating the ICN City class ironclads will be killed just at the sight of those monsters.

Once Thirsk realizes the absolute certainty of a thorough Dohlaran defeat from both the ICN in the Gulf and the furious RSA from the East, he will facilitate saving what he can of his nation. Does anyone really believe his moral courage and sense of honor will allow him to do anything else?
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by ChronicRder   » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:29 pm

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pokermind wrote:IIRC the temple was built after the distruction of the Alexandrian Archive thus it's computers not suceptable to Shin Wei's hackers. However what if Schuler was Shine Wei's agent in the command group and he's what is waking up, a personality stored to be awakened. I doubt Clyntan will be around, but Clintan put to the punishment on orders of Schuler would be rich. Thus the third arrow might just be the awakening of such a mole in the command staff, confirmation of the truth by one of the Archangels.

Poker


I missed this. Where was it stated that the Temple was built after Alexandria was destroyed?
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by CJK   » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:27 pm

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In OAR it was mentioned that the temple was built at the nuke site to proclaim victory of the demons. Also where we note that Chihiro and Schueler books were the later additions to the writ as well. IIRC all of it was a Nimue monologue to herself on explaining what she is going to do.

Think Thirsk already knows he is screwed once they arrive, at least that is what some of his internal monologues state. Plus dont forget he is not the naval chief, Thorast is and sending Thirsk on a suicide mission sounds like something Thorast will happily do.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by wkernochan   » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:58 pm

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Again, probably redundant speculation by a newbie.

It occurs to me that if I were the strategist here, I would not aim as my next move to attack Dohlar directly. Instead, I would keep Dohlar's and the Temple's attention fixed on the advance along the Sheridahn canal, and actually advance along the Dairnwyth canal, which would give me a clear path (ironclad?) to the seas above Dohlar. At the same time, instead of penetrating deeper into Dohlar waters with my Navy, I would control the seas above Dohlar so I could meet/transport my army at the Dairnwyth canal outlet. At that point, I would have Dohlar effectively cut off from both Harchong and the Temple Lands.

Next, I would (possibly using the army from the Dairnwyth canal) take Hayzor and use the army (ironclad?) to march north along Hayzor's river to cut off Harchong from everything east of it. This may or may not mean that part of the Harchongese army will be cut off from Temple lands and its vanguard. Remember, what's north of those mountains north of Hayzor, since we are getting towards winter, is effectively impassible. If we use the early winter to chop up the Harchongese vanguard, we now have a major army with a straight shot towards Lake Pei and from thence the Temple and with no countering army around to stop it. Not from Dohlar, not from the blocked major army in Harchong, and not from the far less mobile Temple Lands states.

Obviously, there may be geographic reasons that I don't know about that make this strategy impossible. Still, it does seem a good continuation of the "slice off the south" strategy that happened in this last book.
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Re: Speculation on the next in the Safehold series
Post by CJK   » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:52 pm

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Charis has a numerical disadvantage versus the CoGA so trying to sidestep Dohlar is likely to be more detrimental to Charis. Then there is the fact that the Dohlarian army could turn around and cut the canal behind the ironclads, risking such a powerful weapon being destroyed or captured sounds a bit too risky.

As for hitting Dayzor, sure expect that will happen regardless given the Harchongese support in the jihad. Doubt that this would effect the supply of the HoGaA though given the huge distances the CoGA could supply locally (border states). My expectation is that the Langhorne canal will be threatened, as the HoGaA is massive and the bulk of its supplies needs that canal to reach the army in Lake City.
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